Numerals

12 points · submitted 16d ago by u/Vivliofika · Gramadeg / Grammar

I have some questions about how numerals work.

I've started learning only 0-10 so far, and I've got really numerous questions. Also, I'm a little confused with the difference between the standard and the spoken languages

Is "sero" used in Welsh and can it be pronounced with [z]?
Does "un" cause limited soft mutation in sg. f. noun?
Do "dau" and "dwy" cause soft mutation for all the nouns?
What is the difference between "ail" and "eilfed" and do they both cause soft mutation?
Is "cynta' " used in the spoken language
What happens with "tri" and "chwe" in the spoken language (I mean do they cause aspirate mutation)?
What the difference between "pum" and "pump"; "chwe" and "chwech"?
Does "seithfed" cause any mutation?
What is "deng"?
Do any other numerals cause any mutation, and I've missed something?
Does "cyntaf" follow a noun?
Constructions with numerals are either numeral + singular noun or numeral + o + plural noun, right?

I'm extremely thankful to everyone who will respond to my questions

17 comments · 100% upvoted · other discussions

comments

Jonlang_ 16 points · 16d ago

Yes it is, and yes is can be pronounced with [z]. Many people just pronounce it the same as English.
Yes.
Yes, but dau is masculine and dwy is feminine. For mixed groups the masculine is used.
Ail and eilfed mean the same thing. You could go a long way with Welsh before ever coming across eilfed at all. It tends to be used with compound ordinals: eilfed ar bymtheg (17th - 2nd on 15) but ail ar bymtheg is common too. You’ll also see unfed instead of cyntaf in the same position. EDIT: You’ll also see ail- as a prefix which equates to English re- when it means ‘again’, e.g. ailgylchu ‘recycle’ [ail- + cylchu].
Yes. Why wouldn’t it be? EDIT: is this a question of cynta vs. cyntaf? If so, yes, Welsh commonly drops final -f [v] from words and sometimes they can be spelt without it too: tre(f), gorsa(f), cynta(f), etc. But if a suffix is added, the -f is restored and pronounced.
Officially, yes but the aspirate/spirant mutation is dying a slow death, especially for t- and p- initial words. You’ll see it more often than you’ll hear it.
Pump and chwech are the numbers proper. Pum and chwe are clipped versions used before a noun, it probably arose to allow the speech to flow more easily. It also occurs with cant (100) > can.
Yes. The -fed ordinals cause soft mutation to feminine singular noun. They also take soft mutation after the definite article: y bumed bennod ’the fifth chapter’ [< *y pumed pennod].
Deng is a form of deg (10) which has assimilated to a word which begins with a nasal consonant: deng mlynedd is easier to say than deg mlynedd, etc. It is only used with a few temporal words.
Un causes limited soft mutation to feminine nouns; dau/dwy cause soft mutation; tri (but not tair) and chwe cause aspirate/spirant mutation; saith, wyth, naw, and de(n)g cause nasal mutation (due to their historic -n terminus).
Yes, cyntaf follows the noun which is for reason of etymology. Cyntaf used to be an adjective and kept its adjectival position when its meaning shifted.
Yes. It’s not a hard-and-fast rule, but: generally after about 10 we begin to use the numeral + o + plural pattern, for smaller amounts it tends to be numeral + singular. This gets more complicated with the vigesimal compound numbers.