GitHub starts blocking developers in countries facing US trade sanctions
185 comments · 87% upvoted · source · other discussions
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etcetica
KimmiG1
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ProgramTheWorld
Developers: host source code with an American company
American company: follows American laws
Developers: shocked pikachu face.jpeg
LeDucky
Are all Github servers in America though?
AnAirMagic
Doesn't matter. If you an American company (or a company with offices/products/staff/research/sales) based in the US, the law is in effect for you. You can't opt out because some servers are not in the US.
woahdudee2a
well they have to do it to comply with US law. I remember couple years back reddit randomly banned Iranian and Russian accounts for PR reasons and there was no outrage
RagingAnemone
I, for one, didn't hear about it. Why was it random? That seems weird.
randomfloridaman
Was it random and was it for PR? I remember some very specific problems with some Russian accounts
itsgreater9000
I remember couple years back reddit randomly banned Iranian and Russian accounts for PR reasons and there was no outrage
What do you mean no reason? They explain it extremely clearly in these two posts:
https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/8bb85p/reddits_2017_transparency_report_and_suspect/
[deleted]
So we need to get a federated gitlab going, publish to multiple remotes on multiple services in different countries.
The good thing about this is that people are finally learning that one cannot put all one's eggs in one basket and that convenience comes with hidden downsides (hidden in the sense that they aren't immediately apparent).
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_eps1lon
I think they ban accounts based on billing information. Dont think vpn helps in every situation.
AyrA_ch
Iirc they also check your location history for people that never had billing information supplied.
[deleted]
Billing information is not needed for a standard account
issamehh
That doesn't help for already existing accounts with private repos.
kebabelele
Aren't private repos free?
issamehh
There are for up to 3 collaborators. So if you go past that, you'll have to pay. If somebody paid and got banned then they'll have lost access to their issues, pull requests, wiki, and potentially changes others have made on the project. They should still have their local repo which would probably be mostly up to date, but that's it.
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NMe84
If you think it's a better service, yes. If it is because of these sanctions, no. Gitlab is run by an American company too.
knaekce
You can self host gitlab, though.
NMe84
Yes, but if you do you're still a customer and they can retract your license.
knaekce
Gitlab Community Edition is under the MIT license, I don't think using code under MIT qualifies as customer, but IANAL obviously.
But it would still be way harder to enforce this. Gitlab can't effectively ban Iranians from using their source code and hosting it on their own server. GitHub can however ban Iranians from using their services very easily.
coderanger
It's open source itself, though because the code is from Gitlab's main site, they could block access to future updates. But ask a friend to throw a tarball your way and it's something at least.
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AyrA_ch
Self hosting. One of the easiest ways is probably with a synology nas or similar product.
Has pretty much everything you need. You can install gitlab on it, or you can install individual components you need (apache, php, git, mantis bug tracker, etc)
The upfront costs are a bit high and disks are sold separately. I assume you have to search for a local seller though if there's a trade embargo going on.
I say the benefits outweigh the costs though:
- You can simultaneously use this as general file storage and your project host. You can limit access the way you like.
- Has lots of packages, installation of things like VPN server or other components is pretty much "point and click"
- Two disks for redundancy (using software RAID 1)
- You can SSH into it
- No monthly costs apart from power consumption
- Not having to trust a 3rd party with your data
- Not depending on a 3rd party upholding their contract
- Can connect to PPPoE networks (DSL) and cable networks when configuring the ISP supplied modem as bridge, acting as your modem/firewall. This makes port forwarding unnecessary.
The only real downside of self hosting is that it depends on your internet connection. You have to forward ports and if your internet is down, your collaborators can't reach your service. This is less important for git but other things they might want (issue tracker, files, automatic builds) will be inaccessible.
doublehyphen
The up front costs of hosting Gitlab are low. You can just get a VPS from a European company for cheap. Make sure to pick one with enough ram because Gitlab is a memory hog, but it still should not be more than like 12 euros per month plus some for the backup.
AyrA_ch
it still should not be more than like 12 euros per month plus some for the backup.
1 Year of this VPS pretty much covers the NAS enclosure at that point though. And you still face the risk of the EU retracting the law that makes obeying the US Iran sanctions illegal. You might prefer hosting in Asia.
Devildude4427
Doesn’t help. GitHub has kept track of accounts coming from Iranian IPs, and is reportedly asking for a headshot and a non-Iranian government ID to unlock those accounts for access from non-Iranian IPs
Squealing_Squirrels
I'll just paste my thoughts from another comment I made on this.
Problem is not that a US company is following government's orders. The problem is that this could happen at all. What if they decide they don't like where I live next? This goes against the core values of the open source community. US government is basically weaponizing the works of a lot of people that would be against this decision. I have works up on GitHub, I would like them to be available to everyone, I never thought US government would be punishing people by forcing GitHub to deny access when I published my content to there.
I know some smart-asses will say if you don't like it use something else. Use what? A lot of alternatives will be in the same boat if they get as popular as GitHub. And even if I change, I personally don't matter. GitHub contains maybe millions of people's work, some of them no longer supported even. It would take years to build up a similar amount of content somewhere else.
Hopefully, despite every government hating the idea, we'll get a decentralized web so governments can not just censor things willy nilly.
Cubox_
Trade sanctions and embargos like the one against Russia, the Republic of Crimea and Iran are not here to punish citizens directly. Pressuring the US or US companies to lift the sanctions is useless.
The goal is to punish the government that made a bad thing (annexing Crimea for example). The citizens affected need to get their own government to change in order to lift the sanctions. They are the ones in power through their vote.
Many won't like hearing this, because it's unfair. But that's the way it is. Crimea is being punished for having declared independence from Ukraine and getting attached to Russia. The US are doing everything they can to help with sanctions. If an US company starts being nice and lifts restrictions the whole thing is made useless.
Sanctions are here to show the world that a country that behaves badly will be punished. Not through war. Not through direct assault. But through economical measures. Think of it as a war, but without direct casualties. In this war, embargoed citizens GitHub accounts caught a stray bullet.
Without economic sanctions, the US would have to go to actual war, in order to show that Russia can't annex territories like they did. Way more dead people.
ArkyBeagle
But governments use the US now as a means of unifying people under their control.
You'd think that the overthrow of Mossadegh would have lost its impact at some point but the Iranian government uses "the Great Satan" to stay in power. It's effective; most Iranians don't seem to dislike Americans but they have the same jaundiced view of our government.
The US overthrew Mossadegh on behalf of the British; nationalizing industries is very bad form. I won't deny the hypocrisy of it all but this is what nation-states do. The good news is that we haven't had a Dulles brothers in quite a while. Curveball memo blah blah blah (I still think certain parties at the cabinet level messed up in that specific case ) .
Just to head things off, I thought Obama's attempt to renormalize relations with Iran were a great thing. But it is not easy; import/export restrictions are still a thing.
Government is simply a blunt instrument.
falconfetus8
If someone blocked my garage with their car until I called my senator to do X, I wouldn't get mad at my senator; I'd get mad at the guy who blocked my garage!
The same principle applies to sanctions; the people will get mad at the country applying the sanctions, not at their own government.
feelings_arent_facts
That's pretty fucking stupid logic. It's more like the guy is letting you use his garage and then parks his car in front of it to block you from using it until you pay rent.
falconfetus8
I admit, the analogy isn't perfect.
[deleted]
When is US going to be punished for meddling in once peaceful countries and support of separatism? US demonstrated its power whenever it could. That is completely valid because US is major world power. There is no international law for major world powers. In Russia gov can change, but its external policies and politics will not. Same goes for US. World powers are doing everything to stay in dominant position, and nothing is going to stop them. Russia (like any world power) is pretty much immune to sanctions as a country. Sanctions are only going to effect people (who see sanctions as act of agression). In the end nothing is going to change. Crimea is going to be Russian from now on no matter what happens and what sanctions US inpose. Ukraine will be shithole country for next 50 or so years because of their poor decisions. No sanctions will change that. All of this is completely natural. It was like that before and it will be in future.
Cubox_
On the Wikipedia page about sanctions against Russia for the Crimea annexation:
The sanctions by the European Union and United States continue to be in effect as of May 2019. In July 2018, the EU announced the extension of sanctions until February 2019.
The sanctions contributed to the collapse of the Russian ruble and the Russian financial crisis.
It's not only the US. The EU, Canada, Australia... All agree that the annexation was in complete disregard to the sovereign rights of Ukraine.
feelings_arent_facts
> Russia (like any world power) is pretty much immune to sanctions as a country.
Lol. Russia's GDP growth dropped a full percent due to Crimean sanctions.
Valmar33
Well, regardless of what Iran or Russia's governments have been accused of doing, and whether or not it's true, it matters not.
To the US government, they care about control through sanctions, and could care less who gets caught in the crossfire.
And those happen to be Iranian and Russian citizens. And Crimean, too, because they're classified as Russian, now.
[deleted]
The citizens affected need to get their own government to change in order to lift the sanctions.
when U.S. citizens cannot convince their own government to work for them instead of corporate lobbyists, then how do you expect other country citizens to do the same thing?
thecyberd3m0n
Just know that it is politics, and everything you can do is create fake account under VPN and f*** it ;)
hervold
Dhylan
I hope nobody is still without a clue as to why Russia, China and other countries are so intensely building their own chips, internet and financial infrastructure. The USA and 'friends' are finding themselves more and more on the outside of what much of the rest of the world is doing. Welcome to the 21st century, where the way it used to be is not the way it is anymore.
[deleted]
Jesus... I am not sure about that, doesn't feel right to me.
devraj7
Well, this is the point of countrywide sanctions, isn't it?
It's unfortunate for innocent individuals being hit as collateral, but the idea is that they will exert pressure on their governments to have these sanctions lifted.
politeeks
Wtf are yo talking about. What exactly has Iran done in this situation? We broke a peace agreement we had with them and now we're randomly starting a war with them?
AnAirMagic
I think you nail the issue: this is the US goverment screwing with Iranians. Github (and Microsoft) are probably as much victims here of the law as Iranians (and Sudanese, and North Koreans and ...).
ArkyBeagle
But this is rather like strategic bombing - it might work now and again but it can be shown to backfire. That being said, Operation Linebacker seems to have had somewhat the desired effect. Hard to say, really.
FWIW - the Iranian Revolutionary Guard has very recently seized tankers in the Strait. This is continuing....
aevitas
It doesn't feel right at all. One of the great things about open source (or distributed) development is that everyone from all around the world can contribute, no matter where you are from. If you have a meaningful skill and can contribute, you're welcome. What GitHub/MSFT is doing right now goes directly against the spirit of open source software imo.
thatOneGuyWhoAlways
Do they have any choice though?
FINDarkside
Of course not. They don't really gain anything with this, but they have to follow the law.
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Devildude4427
Hey, salty Euro, you also have sanctions on countries.
Also, your entire notion is flawed. America only had control because those businesses choose to trade in the US. Many companies aren’t even native to America, but cane because we’re more hand off, and are a bigger market.
So that gives your beloved “domestic competitors” two paths. Either they make a good product, and abide by American law in order to access that market, or they fade into shitty irrelevancy. Small competitors don’t exist because who wants Facebook, but with only 10 of your friends, because the rest are on other platforms?
AMusingMule
While it's unfortunate GH/MS are doing this, perhaps we've become too reliant on centralized platforms like github to organize what should be a distributed system (git). After all, if the point of distribution is to remove a reliance on any one group to maintain development, then something like GitHub becoming unavailable shouldn't be affecting development for a whole country.
Issue-tracking and other community features make GitHub, GitLab and other git hosts great and help promote open source development, but they're also usually centralized and (imo) go against the decentralized design of VCSs like git.
[deleted]
so whats the big deal here? isn't this something they have to do?
CJKay93
SergiusTheBest
I'm from Ukraine and I regret only Crimea is blocked and not the whole Russia. That barbaric country must pay for what it did to its neighbours.
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SergiusTheBest
So, tell me who is responsible for all terrible things Russia has done and continue to do? Russian devs, teachers, factory workers, medics, drivers, cashiers - no one is or all of them are? Russian government does exactly what Russian people want. They want to rebuild USSR and punish West and USA.
Valmar33
Uh... how about just leave the citizens out of stupid, mudslinging geopolitical sanction wars?
99% of Russian and Iranian citizens just want to live in peace, exactly like anyone else.
thecyberd3m0n
Use a fake account and vpn. Still you can register from American proxy. They don't block vpns yet.
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vvv561
GitHub starts following the law
TunaGamer
My scrum master should handle this ez
[deleted]
The cloud was the future...until it was killed by one reality-show host's politician's pen.
thecyberd3m0n
https://github.com/Persper/drepo-gogs
Pay attention on those repos!! You may need it.
thecyberd3m0n
https://github.com/Persper/drepo-gogs
Pay attention on this project. Donate them, make PRs, make it alive.
Censorship should be beheaded by sword of cryptocurrencies and decentralization.
'man, I don't wanna deal with the headache of maintaining a data store... let's just put our repo on the cloud'
lol gg
stormcrowsx 100 points · Jul 2019
I doubt this caused much data loss. Git keeps an entire copy locally, pick a new remote and push.
The impact is moreso on the ability for these countries to collaborate with open source communities.
Obtuse_Donkey 82 points · Jul 2019
It's a valid point and not just with respect to github. If all your assets and intellectual property are in America, you're subject to the whims of whatever administration is in power.
Doing business in America right now is doing business with a man who can't honour a deal. Example: despite having a trade agreement in place, and negotiating a new one with Canada, the Trump administration continued to impose tariffs on Canadian exports to the US.
America has become a place where one government change is enough to rip up and destroy decades of established regulations and law without a shred of evidence to back up the change. You'd expect that from a badly run third world nation .... a place where established rule of law is happily ignored by legislators and the government when it suits them.
Anyway, it makes doing business with the USA more risky and certainly raises questions about depending in the long term on any US services.
Github is nice, but I wouldn't store anything commercial with them.
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Obtuse_Donkey 1 points · Jul 2019
No one thinking about those other countries would suspect those actions to be a function of the hurt ego of their president. And I was referring to tariffs, not sanctions.
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EdgyQuant 4 points · Jul 2019
--depth 1disagrees[deleted] 4 points · Jul 2019
You usually don't keep all branches on a local repo unless you're specifically doing that (which I almost never do).
RoastMochi 2 points · Jul 2019
I would argue that issue tracking counts as a big part of your project history too. That's where all the discussions for code resides, and are a major resource towards solving terrible bugs.
[deleted] 21 points · Jul 2019
Migrating your data due to trade sanctions against your country is more than likely cheaper than hosting it yourself with proper backups. Sure, if it's just a single person, we are talking about maybe 100-200 dollars, but for larger enterprises, it can be $100,000s.
I'd be surprised if buying land, a building, another piece of land and building for off-site backups, servers, equipment, electric, hiring employees, and paying salary/benefits is cheaper than hosting it on Azure or AWS.
This is moreso true if we're just talking about VCS. Even the article said he could easily move his stuff. The real problem was that he'd miss out on the popularity of GitHub, so making fun of him for not wanting to maintain his own data store is a non sequitur anyway.
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