u/DavesCardouselX

Interesting question. I won't kill or harm animals so that I can have a pleasure that I don't need - cheese is delicious, but I can easily live without it. I feel more inclined to kill to save myself from pain. I say "pain," but what truly bothers me is itching and disgust and the risk of disease. I am repulsed and horrified when I find a tick half buried in my skin. Its jaws in my bloodstream. The knowledge that it might already have infected me with the bacterium that causes Lyme disease, and the longer it hangs on, the greater the risk.

That little fucker is getting terminated with extreme prejudice.

Some say that there's pleasure equals a lack of pain, and that pain equals a lack of pleasure, but all my intuition insists that this is not the case. An absence of cheese is not pain, not close to the disutility I feel from getting a tick.

Also, there's a big difference between suffering and death. I care about the suffering of bugs, even ticks. I find it really hard to care about their deaths.

She's had her condition her whole life. It's her normal. She's used to it. If life without her condition was her normal, and suddenly she developed her condition, perhaps she would consider herself to be suffering. She also does not seem to want to die. She probably values life more than she values death. Therefore, she doesn't see a problem with a child inheriting her issues.

Yeah, that makes sense. Your understanding does, I mean.

I noticed that in the original article: "Our reasoning was that in the end, I turned out OK and thus, there was no reason to believe that my own child would not be OK in the end if it were born with EB."

For my own interest, I'm going to try and pick out the flaws in her reasoning. The first is easy, I think: it's a false syllogism, albeit one stated innocently. Even if Spurrier were entirely healthy, it's wrong to conclude that her baby will "be ok." Furthermore, as you say, "She probably values life more than she values death." I feel like her mistake might be assuming that everyone else prefers life, too.

Argh, my stupid, sick brain won't work. Maybe I'll manage to flesh this out and make a post about it later.

Yeah, I think if you painlessly kill a baby you haven't wronged it, any more than you wrong a fetus by having an abortion. You've probably done it a favor by preventing future suffering. Babies aren't self-aware and they don't have hopes for the future. They are driven to stay alive, but, well, so are plants.

Don't worry, I'm not going to kill any babies. It would cause great pain to the parents, also I don't want to go to jail.

I am hoping to suss out how "we" antinatalists react to situations akin to the one in the linked video.

Personally, I react with boredom and irritation. I don't care, Kimmel. Ooh, click on "Guy pukes on cat..." Some will call me a psychopath, and perhaps they're right, though if someone told a story about their beloved pet cat getting dangerously ill, I might cry.

What do I do with Kimmel's story, with his emotion? Well, I recognise that his emotions are genuinely felt, and he genuinely doesn't believe that he's done anything wrong. What claims are you referring to?

Got to admit, I was annoyed that I couldn't leave a comment on that blog. Though she's given not just her name, but her child's full name, too (sure, invade the kid's privacy, on top of everything else).

"our reasoning" haha. more like hers.

I know, right? I don't think she knows what "reasoning" means, either. More like "incoherent attempt at justifying what she wants, and to hell with inconvenient things like 'other people's pain' and 'reality'."

I think it often happens that people with disabilities or disorders feel like they have to have kids to prove that they're "normal."

Interesting, I hadn't thought of that one.

I think my favorite part is how she gets all self-righteous when a doctor assumes she's going to abort if the fetus tests positive...for the extremely painful, life-limiting condition it has a 50/50 chance of getting.

Also the way she talks about "doing so much" for the fetus: having a bunch of genetic tests she's going to ignore. She says that terminating her pregnancy would be "selfish." I do not understand how people think like this.

Here's some on the condition: "Epidermolysis Bullosa (EB) is a group of genetic skin conditions which cause the skin to blister and tear at the slightest touch.

Those born with EB have skin so fragile they are called 'butterfly children' – their skin is quite simply as fragile as the wing of a butterfly.

Painful open wounds and sores form where this exceptionally fragile skin is damaged – in some cases, internal linings and organs are also affected. Complications as a result of secondary infection and extensive scarring are factors that people living with EB often have to face.

Tragically, certain types of EB can be fatal in infancy and others are severely life-limiting." source

Of course! The simplest way is to write the address on your envelope or postcard and take it to the post office, but there are more convenient and better ways.

Next time you're in the post office, ask for some £1.05 stamps and some £1.33 stamps. If you're sending something to Europe, stick a £1.05 stamp on it. If you're sending a postcard outside Europe, stick a £1.05 stamp on it. If you're sending a card in an envelope outside Europe, use your £1.33 stamp. Post your stamped, addressed cards in any postbox.

This is for standard-sized cards. Extra-large cards, or envelopes with a few cards in them will weigh more and might cost more. Royal Mail will still deliver them for you, but if you want to be extra careful you can always take them to the post office and get them weighed.

No question is stupid, so ask away!

Sure, I'll send you something if you PM me your address. As a fellow UK person, I'll happily answer any questions you have about sending international mail...though I'm off to bed just now :)

Sorry for your loss. I'll send you a happy card if you PM me your address.

Yes please!

Sure! Please PM me your address.

Yes!

I'll send you something! What kind of cards do you like? I can't draw, btw.

I love telling people interesting stuff about Scotland! PM your address, please!

PM your address, please!

I'll send you something if you PM your address. Tell me what colours you like, too!

Haha, I remember hearing from a postal worker "yes, we absolutely will read your postcard if we have time, and will pass it around if it's good," so I expect that's what happened. I might start writing "hello, postal workers!" on my envelopes.

I know I'm too late to get one, but damn these are lovely!

Hmmmmm. Well I know that if I want a first day postmark on a card, it goes to a different place to get hand-stamped, instead of getting machine-cancelled with most of the mail. So maybe that explains it?

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