u/Dux89

My Selesnya Offense deck does just fine against it. I have tutorable graveyard hate mainboard (1x) and targeted removal hates Pawpatch Recruit and Surrak.

As someone who plays decks that generally have a hard time against control, I'll say your list might benefit from more early removal and sweepers. Avengers Disassembled and Lightning Helix are pretty darn strong. Even just Burst Lightning can win you a game if you can burst a Llanowar Elf.

If you *don't* draw tablet, you're hoping to draw just one Avengers or waiting until turn five to play one of your two sweepers (if you even have them) which might be too long to wait.

I play Selesnya Offense and while I certainly don't love facing a deck with a Planeswalker that wipes out my board, I also don't have a bad win rate into the WR(u) Planeswalker matchup the way you'd think I might, which tells me that the current builds could use some tweaks. IMHO the deck needs stronger early interaction, or ramp, or both to get you safely to Planeswalker takeover.

Tablet is so absurdly strong at doing that for the more traditional Jeskai Control builds. Against Ajani and Co., I feel like I have often done enough to win before they come down, or to swing for lethal with haste (Lavaspur Boots or Skateboard or Goldvein Hydra if you're curious) even after a sweeper.

Why Boros Friends over Jeskai Friends for you?

Coming back to this thread after someone won an MTGO Challenge with the deck! Now it's time to see if that hypothesis about people jumping on the bandwagon comes true...

I posted this same idea almost immediately after the Cub ban – before I'd even realized how good Warg is – and have been cruising ever since. I honestly think the main reason we don't see more of the deck in the MTGO meta is the general conservatism/monkey-see-monkey-do atmosphere in Standard, and as soon as someone has success in a Challenge or big tourney with it, that will change. For now, it has barely seen any play at all in the Challenge scene since the ban.

I think my win rate is as good now as it was with Cub, maybe because of the rise of Boros aggro decks that I just feast on. It also has a good matchup against Jund Sacrifice and Landfall. My list is similar to yours, currently rocking a 63% win rate at Mythic.

On the one hand, I love finding fellow members of the club still rocking this great deck and that's why I'm posting here ... but on the other, it would be nice if it stayed under the radar a bit longer so that I continue to face less Avengers Disassembled than I would if the meta shifted. As others have said, Vigorbloom Charm will help it even more.

FWIW, I started running Tender Wildguide instead of Gene Pollinator and I haven't looked back; I just don't think there are enough 1- and 2-mana permanents to reliably have four mana on turn 3 with Pollinator, although it's probably a minor difference in the long run, the big thing is just having 10+ dorks, and I count Warg in that category.

As for Spellementals, that's always going to be a less-than-50% matchup but 40% seems fine for a worst matchup (mine is somewhere in that range). I mainboard Soul Guide Lantern and I think that is a significantly stronger approach than relying only Keen Eyeds that die instantly once they hit the field.

Whenever green is even just … playable … people lose their minds. It’s a bummer.

As a Gx player, it's weird to me that this card is underrated. It seems like a lot of Gx players just decide to fold to control when there are plenty of good options for being competitive out there. Even when Selesnya Offense had Cub and was a decent meta share, people still didn't always run the card (or Spider-man or other alternatives) and just seemed to accept that sweepers meant losing.

FWIW I've still had plenty of success with my Gearhulk deck. It's worse, don't get me wrong, and the omnipresence of Tablet decks is not great, but it's still plenty strong.

I do think mainboard Spider-man is a great call, and what's more, I would consider throwing in a tutor. Have you ever played with The Huntsman's Redemption? It's one of my favorite cards ever and with way fewer bounce spells in the meta after the Stormchaser ban, the 3/3 token is less liable to die to a one-mana bounce. Anyway, you play it, sacrifice a mana dork the next turn (after tapping the dork! turn on manual control if you're playing on Arena) and then go fetch whatever you need. Usually that's your four-drop bomb, but if you have a good board, you just get Spider-man to keep it alive. It's extremely powerful.

Archdruid's Charm is an alternative or just run one more; I think you need multiple ways to get it against a control-heavy meta.

I wouldn't play it Mono G. I'd play it Selesnya for Offense or Simic for counterspells and Jackal. Either way, are you running Innkeeper's Talent? Otherwise you're pretty low on wincons, like you say, you have to draw roid.

Warg is a great idea; I still want mana dorks though so I’ve gone 4 Tender Wildguide with a lot of success so far. Unlike other mana dorks, they aren’t a bad top deck because they can give you a gang of growing possums pretty quickly. Offspring obviously has great synergy with Offense/Roid.

Wasn't that like... the best matchup for it?

Yeah I guess there's a chicken and egg problem there. Although I have to say that I've now played 15ish games at Mythic since the ban and I'm still seeing a ton of mana dorks so maybe green will still be as prevalent as before (which really wasn't THAT prevalent despite the weird perception that the meta was full of green when the data says it was only like 25%).

I was more thinking of Leyline decks or even the Boros go wide deck, neither of which are tier 1 but both of which are far more singletrack mind aggro than a deck that runs 4 Gearhulks, which is not an aggro card.

That was what I was trying to get at in my post. It will definitely care because that one extra body off of Cub was nice for Offense, but replacing Cub with an extra 2-drop dork to ensure you get the 4-drop off seems kinda... fine. Not great but fine.

Biggest problem with that is that it dies to the red sweepers that are absolutely running rampant right now. But maybe with enough counter magic it works.

That's a good card and helps to have a handful of decent discard outlets too (Offense being a fine one).

More generally, leaning into a more aggro build over the ramp-into-huge-value could be the way to go. Curve out earlier, a few four drops but not 10 of them. Frenzied Baloth maybe and then some protection spells. People called the Selesnya Offense deck "aggro" but it really wasn't relative to the current meta where Slickshot can kill on turn 3.

I loved Great Divide Guide when Pyroclasm and Fire Magic were the red sweepers of choice but now that 3 toughness isn't enough (Avengers), the Offspring-able and Buff-able Possum seems better to me. It means that when you get swept with your Offense in hand, you can immediately start rebuilding even when you draw a mana dork, which is pretty nice.

Yeah Dimir Midrange could definitely be good in the postban meta.

Yeah I mean that's a good point; the deck will be great but loses it's biggest reason for existing.

I don't get this. Midrange will just fold to control the way it has forever. Without explosive Prowess decks to keep Tablet + Revelation in check, they will blow up all your threats and outdraw your midrange deck and then Rev you on turn 5.

Look at data on the presence of green in Standard before Cub. It was far and away the least played and least good color. Wasn't even close.

Spellementals, Control, and Lessons (because the deck is just fine without Gran Gran) will be even better than they were, and not only because they lost very little or nothing. Prowess was good against these decks and Prowess is now weaker.

Landfall will still be so-so methinks but other green strategies obviously take a big hit, which is a pretty poor call from WotC. They let green be good (but not THAT good, Cub was only like a 25% meta share) for a year and then said JK let's send green back into the dumpster.

You are also describing Llanowar Elves, nobody is suggesting banning that.

I mean you can see this data yourself. Cub actually had LESS than 25% meta share the past 30 days in MTGO data.