u/Enginizzle

Awesome to some results and reactions to Zelle’s starting to get posted here.

Quick Q for those who have pinned Elora… do you recon with BAC + Acetic Acid or just BAC?

I procured a kit of Elora but vendor told me to use a small amount of acetic acid when reconstituting which I haven’t had to do yet for other peps.

For Tesa water retention, I don’t know if it completely goes away until you cycle off but the puffy feeling will definitely normalize and as you lean out you may even actually like how full your muscles look.

For me it happened around week 6 and now I’m starting to see some ab definition for the first time in my life. Tesa/Ipa is probably the second best thing in my stack behind Reta.

Fasted cardio helps a lot and definitely make sure you are getting electrolytes (Potassium / Magnesium in particular).

Training 7x a week is honestly overkill for your body for anyone who is not a professional athlete. Overtraining while in a deficit and cutting fat is just asking for injury and debilitating fatigue.

Your hormones were also probably wrecked and with a routine like that, I bet your body has adjusted to sub-optimal sleep which throws hormones off even more and continues the vicious cycle, etc.

I have a similar schedule (5am workout lifting + cardio 4-6x per week) and for 2 years I could not lose weight despite eating keto, intermittent and extended fasting, etc. I wasn’t getting that much sleep but managed to make the schedule work.

I started Reta earlier this year and have been running the same exact routine / low-carb diet and the weight finally started to come off, although it was slow at first.

On month 3, I added Tesa/Ipa which transformed my sleep & recovery and now the weight feels like it is legitimately melting off.

You HAVE to incorporate some form of resistance training when in a caloric deficit, otherwise you will end up looking skinny fat.

Even just doing 20 minutes of body weight sets (pushups, squats, planks, lunges) at home 2-3x a week will do wonders for you.

Anecdotally speaking, it also seems to help your body crave protein which means you won’t hit too extreme of a deficit.

Fellow busy parent / aspiring executive here and I bought a single kettlebell to squeeze in quick 15-20 min sessions in the mornings before family and work schedules get too crazy.

Get a KB that’s ~1/3 of your body weight and aim for 50 to 100 reps of swings, goblet squats, bent over rows, etc. It won’t take too long and you will definitely feel it the next day.

Tesamorelin and 5-amino-1mq serve quite different goals.

Tesa is a secretagogue which targets visceral fat reduction while 5-am-1mq is an NNMT inhibitor which promotes fat burning and energy expenditure with a slight preference for subcutaneous fat.

Which are you focused on?

At modest doses for either one (1 mg daily Tesa or 5-10mg daily 5-AM-1MQ) you will need several weeks to months before you see any meaningful results.

Many who post here have indicated better short-term results from higher doses of 5-AM-1MQ (20mg daily or greater) but that can get quite expensive and is probably not practical for most people. Unfortunately not a lot of established research with this one.

It’s also worth noting that 5-am-1mq is commonly part of an overall mitochondrial stack so worth looking into NMN/NAD+, SS-31, and MOTS-C as well.

At the very least, I recommend adding NMN permanently as it’s not too expensive and synergizes well with all of the others.

Honest answer is no—don’t take MOTS-C before resistance training. If you need it, I wouldn’t suggest going above 1 or 2 mg and ensure you take Whey immediately after

This is not talked about enough on here since most are usually raving about how great of a pre-workout it is. But MOTS-C is an AMPK activator that stimulates fat and energy burning. AMPK activation works in direct opposition of mTOR activation which is needed for muscle protein synthesis, muscle building and recovery.

MOTS-C is great for HIIT type exercise or fasted cardio but if you are resistance training just a take normal pre-workout and be sure to get your post workout Whey (look into maximizing mTOR activation).

If you really need something prior to resistance training, you could look into amino tadalafil (no experience with it personally).

Honestly the cycle timing is less important than how it impacts your IGF-1 levels.

The longer you run it, the more desensitized your receptors will get.

Make sure you get a baseline reading and plan for another reading one around the 12 week mark.

If within optimal range at that point, consider taking a 4 week break before starting again.

Otherwise go to 16 wks on / 4 wks off.

If you are in a caloric deficit, always start on the floor first.

Lifting heavier and better performance on the floor BEFORE cardio will lead to less muscle loss over time.

Tread performance should really boil down to two numbers: distance and splats / heart rate. (Speed is just a tool to cover more distance).

Feel free to experiment for yourself but those numbers are unlikely to be meaningfully different after starting on the floor.

The only time I start on the tread is if it’s a benchmark day and I’m going for a PR.

I hate to burst your bubble but if you haven’t been lifting heavier or getting stronger, then the pump and gains you are feeling might be associated with the water retention making muscles feel and look fuller. This is super common with secretagogues.

In order for the CJC/Ipa (or any secretagogue) to be more anabolic, you have to give it enough time to meaningfully raise your IGF-1 levels vs baseline.

I would recommend running it at minimum 8 weeks and since you’re doing 5 on/2 off, it probably makes sense to shoot for between 12-16 weeks instead (as long as no side effects.)

During this time, you will also shed some visceral fat and start feeling leaner in your core. Any shorter and you’re not really reaping the full benefits. A lot of people cycle on for 6 months or so.

Two things to consider:

1. As your ratio of lean to fat mass increases, you’re more likely to experience day-to-day fluctuations on the scale, simply due to water retention in the body. Add to this that reta slows gastric emptying (food stays in your system longer) and your body just might have more ‘filler’ weight compared to pre-Reta.
2. When you burn proportionately more fat than muscle (which sounds like the case here given you are hitting protein goals), you are subject to the ‘whoosh’ effect. Even when you burn fat stores, the fat cells themselves don’t just go away. They initially draw in water to keep structural integrity which means you wouldn’t see a huge short-term difference in the scale. The time period in which that water clears is totally dependent on your body. For some people a high carb or higher sodium intake day triggers the whoosh while others might just need a rest day from training.

Given your performance concerns and general fatigue, look into the following:

Creatine: At just 5mg/day, muscles will feel fuller and small boost in performance / recovery. Note that this will add another 1-2lbs water weight initially but you’ll likely look and feel better.

Sleep Quality: Are you consistently getting enough sleep and adequate recovery? IMO, equally as important as hitting protein target when training in a deficit. Anything from supplements like Magnesium to just a better wind down routine could help here.

What’s with all the bubbles? Pepsi Blue looking GHK hahaha

Thanks for sharing. Understanding experiences like this are what makes this community so helpful. I’ve got questions!

1) Did your baseline blood markers indicate any worrying signs of insulin resistance? Also did you test IGF-1 & Z-Score before starting Reta/Tesa? 8 weeks to supraphysiological levels sounds like a really fast ramp for someone who might’ve been low to mid range ON IGF-1 levels (especially at 5 on / 2 off)

2) Out of all the other peps you tried (particularly mitochondrial ones NAD+ / SS-31 / MOTS-C / 5-Amino-1mq), did you experience any noticeable acceleration in fat loss or weight decline on the scale after trying some combo of these?

3) How are you thinking about long term reta usage? Once you get to your goal, will you taper down to a maintenance dose?

What is your Age and relative fitness level? And your dosage of MOTS-C?

MOTS-C has little research and individual experience seems to vary quite a bit. It also all depends on baseline mitochondrial condition.

For any mitochondrial protocol, it’s important to look at building blocks / precursors (NAD levels). As an analog, think of MOTS-C as the gas pedal, but it pressing hard won’t do anything if you don’t have any fuel in the tank (NAD).

Some people prefer injecting NAD+ but you can also look into taking precursor NMN for a few weeks before trying MOTS-C again. High quality NMN doesn’t hurt to have as part of your long-term stack.

Others run SS-31 simultaneously with or before MOTS to ‘repair & prime’ mitochondria but again the research here isn’t super definitive.

5-Amino-1mq is even less researched than MOTS, but simply put is another way of addressing how the ‘fuel’ is consumed (similar effects to NMN/NAD) that potentially has more impact on mitochondria in fat cells.

Since this all starts with NAD levels as the fuel, I recommend building with NMN for a few weeks before trying MOTS again.

If still no perceptible difference at that point then maybe worth trying the 5-Amino.

Same. Definitely lost a few hundred to scammers on my first attempt.

Idk what to tell you man I’ve never lost my weights, they are always right there where I put them after I finish lifting.

Protein shakes are your friend. 2-3 a day are not uncommon for folks who are cutting and primarily concerned with preserving lean mass.

I do 30-50g Whey in the morning post workout, 1-2 Fairlife (Corepower or Nutrition plan) during the day, and another 30-50g of Casein a couple of hours before bed.

I’m also hella thirsty on Reta so drinking protein every 4 hours or so has been much more manageable.

Probably only have 1 to 2 real meals outside of that and it does feel like work to eat but I usually focus on finishing the high protein and fiber portions.

Also taking vitamin & nutrient supplements because I just know I’m not eating enough.

Once you start seeing results it will definitely help motivate you more to at least consistently go to the gym. You don’t need to crush it every time or hit PRs each week but think of the dopamine blunting from Reta as a good opportunity to build discipline and consistency as another muscle.

It will make it that much easier to keep the weight off once you cycle down.

Also a bigger dude. Started at 2 mg weekly for a month and didn’t feel anything and the scale didn’t move.

Titrated up to 4 mg this week and definitely feeling the appetite suppression and thankfully no side effects.

Since it seems like I am a less sensitive responder, will stay on 4mg for a month and going to try 6mg starting month 3 to see if I can reap or notice more benefits of the glucagon agonism.

Yup, 5 mg every morning with Whey post workout. Has helped with recovery and performance immensely (feels like I’m getting stronger or staying at baseline despite the claims of Reta fatigue on here).

Make sure you are hydrating and don’t be scared to add some diuretics throughout the day (coffee, green tea, oolong, kiwi, etc.)

Such a low effort post. You didn’t share your stats, (current weight, bf%, age, whether M or F), or how far you are from your goal.

Not to mention if you’re actually doing 2-3 hours of strength training PER DAY, then something is seriously wrong with your training regimen. You’re either not truly strength training or you are overtraining without proper recovery.

Needless to say if weight loss isn’t happening like it used to, it’s a diet/nutrition problem.

You’re eating much more than you estimate. The food noise can disappear overtime as your body adapts and overcomes the signals to try and put the weight back.

I’d recommend doing a DEXA or Inbody scan to get an idea of your maintenance calories.

Try to eat at or slightly below maintenance while focusing on protein (this is how you recomp).

If you can do this while titrating down Reta, you can maybe give your receptors a bit of a break.

This is technically wrong given the glucagon receptor having the lowest binding affinity. At higher Reta doses, glucagon agonism is more consistent and present.

However the point still stands. Due to the 6 day half life, you don’t reach steady state concentration of Reta in the bloodstream until you’ve been on the same dose for 4-5 weeks.

This is why in initial weeks food noise might feel like its returning sooner and it gets better over time with the same dose.

I would say add Tesa/Ipa blend or straight up HGH.

Visceral fat creates a lot of challenges hormonally so getting it down may help improve your test / estradiol levels. It also tends to be tied to insulin sensitivity so may be worth incorporating intermittent fasting or a lower carb diet.

Personally, I think it’s a better idea to reduce visceral fat and reach stable body fat % before starting TRT (especially for folks who aren’t yet in the second half of life agewise).

Super inspiring bro, Reta may have helped but this is amazing hard work and discipline.

Few questions for you:

1) Any noticeable changes to strength on your lifts? Some people say to expect weaker strength on Reta.

2) What made you want to start KLOW? Were you dealing with any loose skin or reactions from losing so fast?

3) Are you gonna add cardio as you get closer to goal weight? Seems like it would help with your aggressive target of another 30 lbs in 2 months

Great job again and thanks for sharing!

Amazing work - you are cut as hell!

Question, in the first year how long was your stack just Reta only?

When did you feel you needed to add in MOTSC and others to the stack? Was it based more on feeling or visual results?

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Highly recommend.

Khao Hom in downtown Hayward is excellent.