u/PowderedwigGoony

From what I understand this is a nerf for skysight (unless you currently cant use it while stealthed). It currently is a 15% speed increased unless youre attuned and it jumps up to 30%. 15% move speed puts you around the same speed as a paladin with pursuit of justice which is pretty lame by itself (at least for 10-15 seconds). The 30% increase with attunement makes it worthwhile.

Edit: have you not seen the patch notes from yesterday?

I personally am a fan of weapon racials to a certain point. It saved a ton of headaches now that its removed so im not too attached to idea. 

If the BiS weapon was an axe, it doesnt matter who wore it on ally, its equally as good for all ally races. Or perhaps a human would stick with with their swords and it would be best to give it to any other race. At the end of the day though, if it was a choice to use a sword you'd get the most benefit as a human. If you werent a human, you're selling yourself short.

I think theres a world where you could have many more weapon types and each race got their own prefered one (or multiples). Like if glaives was a new weapon types preferred by nelves. Or swords was split between curved/straight swords (katanas, Sabres vs. Short swords, rapiers for instance) with trolls preferring curved swords and spears vs humans with straight swords and halberds (I'm pulling races out of my ass). Its an old-school rpg thing that really appeals to those who like that, but that would be convoluted and messy.

Back to the original topic, the flat crit, haste, ect. bonuses are as you say lazy. When attached to a weapon they feel a little less so, but it doesnt make nearly as much sense as the old +weapon skill. Maybe they should do rid of them in favor of another active racial, but that has its own issue. 

Theres not much more to be done with offensive active racials. Orcs have an AP/SP buff, trolls have haste, and nightelves have crit. Theres room for armor/spell penetration, spell cost reduction (gnomes have a version of that), but not much else as a limited time damage buff. How do you add more without feeling like it becomes blood fury but on dwarf for instance? That's where the passives came in that benefits more on longer fights.

As you said, ONCE you get high crit. Who knows when that'll be or even IF we can get enough crit to make crit damage more advantageous than the chance to crit increase. For dwarves, warriors, shamans, and paladins will probably want crit chance as oppose to damage. They want to keep things like flurry and vengeance up as long as possible, as well as getting more rage from crits from warriors since its normalized.

I personally think Tauren should of kept the hit%. Its good in a unique way, other races should get a bonus close enough to match. I dont value crit damage very highly until you get to end game and have a ton of latent crit% (which is somewhere over 40%)

Firstly, do you remember the hardcore addon before hardcore was an official server type in classic? There was an achievement for killing hogger before level 11 i believe. The old addon prevent trading, use of the mail system, and if you grouped up, you had to stay group for your entire journey from 1-60, meaning no grouping up for quests in the open world. Im trying to say hogger isn't hard to solo at 11 in vanilla but you probably needed help with professions/consumes (specifically for warriors).

Anyways, 1-30 isn't even half of the game. Leveling isn't a linear curve.  You'll feel in when you hit 45ish for sure. Some players will enjoy the the "journey", some like myself will be trying to get to 60 in a timely manner. I want to experience the end game content, the new builds to make, ect. Even though the journey has a few new things to discover, I never EVER cared about questing. Sucks that they're nerfing dungeon exp because I would basically be a freelance tank for a few weeks but oh well. 

you can't control wf procs either??? like i'm not in the camp that enhance needs a buff (theres a nuanced argument about what stats they should prioritize with all the things in their talent tree) but you're seeing the extreme end of the spectrum when it comes to their dps output.

Im never going to turn it on. I want to see everyone be beautifully ugly like me (I have no fashion sense)

Honestly racials like that should be its own sub category. Like F class racials (F=Fun/flavor). Find treasure, and MAYBE cultivation would be among them. If the standard amount of racials per race is 4, this would be a 5th that doesnt count towards it. Then again, touch of the grave and forsaken will are pretty strong on their own. Something might end up needing a nerf depending on what was added.

I was thinking that it may be a good idea to have 2 active racials that share a CD. 

Something along the lines of: crystalform/giant growth, increases damage dealt by 10% (damage taken as well?) For 8 seconds, shares a CD with stoneform. This way, the racial becomes more versatile overall. Tanks keep the defensive racial while dps can use the offensive one.

Overall, the problem being it sounds just like the orc's active racial. We've covered most offensive racial actives already. We have increased crit nelves, increased haste trolls, increased damage orcs,  and increased damage with cost reduction gnomes. I dont know where else you can go to make it unique. Maybe armor/spell penetration? 

I fully believe an offensive ability is what dwarves needs. Thematically, growing to be a giant has been a good one. Thaurissan can do it, Muradin in HoTS does it as well, im not familiar with the RTS games and if they had abilities similar to it. 

Im also trying to keep it from becoming too OP in PvP if you add a knockback/stun/interrupt.

 I personally am a fan of a passive racial that synergizes with the dwarves' love of ale. Buff/damage bonus while drunk? Adds a spirit aura to your party based on level of intoxication? A literal flask all dwarves stache in their beards that works as a rage potion/thistle tea/mana pot (also gets you completely smashed). These ones are fun but nowhere near the same level/impact of warstomp or human will.

New world tried this, wasnt a huge fan because the mass majority of people would opt to turn pvp off. The incentive in that game was a 10% increase to your loot luck. Which was good for your gathering when solo but not much else. There were some chest runs early on that it was trivialized because people would go as a raid with 100+ people. There was some nice pvp during it but it came down to who had more players.

Even with said incentive, you'll probably lose more time by pvping and running to your corpse than the bonus made up for it in contentious areas. 

The classic PvE world pvp experience is much better than what warmode could ever offer because people can spontaneously decide to join an ongoing conflict. If you see a bunch of people fighting in the barrens with it off, you have to run back to a city to turn it on if you want to join? That's just silly.

Nah, you know how hard it is to tell people to say "adhesive bandages" instead of "bandaids"? Its sort of like that. Its a part of our vernacular and the only way to get rid of it is by having everyone agree to not say retail. Plus, the meaning extends beyond the the word at face value by now.

This is a stretch, but retail implies youre being offered multiple things. Mounts, cosmetics, multiple expansions every 2ish years. Yes classic has some microtransations, but you dont have to buy an expansion pack ever (Which you do for retail).

But we're literally arguing semantics. When you say retail. 90% of the existing playerbase knows what you mean.

I would say its mainly for resto/ele shams so that they dont have to invest 10+ points in the enhancement tree for imp. ghostwolf.

Don't know if they'll go that deep for anything else in pve or pvp though.

I went eng/mining on my paladin in beta. When it go lives I'm probably going to switch to BS. 

Engineering was almost a must have on a prot paladin in vanilla. Bombs were really good for aoe snap threat (they still are). But the boons of the new BoP blacksmithing recipes are impossible to ignore. That being said, a warrior would find more gear supporting them than a prot paladin outside of blacksmithing. 

Engineering was the go to profession for serious pvp players. Being able to root, dismount, mind control, and interrupt with various doodad and baubles. Unless i'm missing something, it appears largely unchanged. Some of the effects aren't 100% reliable and will backfire at some point. For PvE, bombs are good. If Force reactive disk makes a comeback, that would be really good for AoE threat.

The sweat in me will likely level blacksmithing first, and at some point pivot to Engineering at 60. Hopefully im rich enough to afford it or farm enough mats with mining and then drop it. 

I like the idea on paper, but I feel as though it could be easily abused. It could possibly be a tool for some guilds to hate brigade a specific player if they failed to pay attention to a raid mechanic for instance.

Reporting wont get you far, telling everyone in trade chat doesn't get you far, personally I hate the mega-server approach because there's more anonymity now than ever (also layers are necessary and they suck). 

Making sure you dont have to put up with bs again is the only thing you can try to curb. It would be neat if wow had a shadowbanned/karma system but that could easily be abused with mass reporting. 

So what do you suggest to be done?

Loot luck is exhausting. Kind of the only reason why im not a fan of the SR system. People get all their hopes up for 1-2 SR's. They lose sight or even the ability to roll on anything else. So when it doesn't drop or they lose the roll, it feels like you wasted weeks SR'ing the wrong items. Its 100% a psychological thing and people are craving that dopamine.

I do like a combination of SR/LC. Forces people to get other items than wasting their rolls trying to get a weapon. 

Im glad im still logging in and doing stuff every day. Doing quests designed for level 40s is like a mini end game for me. As long as I dont level a ton of alts up I should be fine when Nov 4th rolls around. I already got my vacation time in after all.

Its a common thing to happen in classic/tbc raids. Get to the boss with your gear, if it doesn't drop, leave and save yourself some time. Sad thing to do, players like that get blacklisted. In raids, thats why you shouldn't roll item out immediately. Make people participate throughout the whole raid to be eligible for loot.

This is WC we're talking about. So it'd be crazy if you had ML on for that. Hopefully that guy had an emergency, otherwise he's just a poop-nose.

I'd legit would bite even if its like a 30 day delay on the transfer, like you wont be able to play your beta character until December 4th. (Ive spent so much time on this character and im so tired boss)

Classic + is not a term with a clearly drawn line. Classic Andy's will try to cope with the fact forever wow is not classic+. I for one would like to see a more "vanilla focused" Classic+ because the forever does feel a bit too much like sod/retail. 

This is not me hating on it (I am in the beta). But there are certainly specs that needed tweaks but not huge reworks. I'm open to see what the dev's vision is before I cast judgement.

Back to the topic, there are certainly people who just want more content within vanilla's finite confounds. They're the ones who say forever isn't classic+. By that metric, theyre right. But its cope because forever is clearly a vanilla world, with a large part of the gameplay/setting remaining relatively unchanged. Quite a bit of QoL, reworks/balancing, and new content sprinkled in, but it still retains a bit of that old-school flavor... at least at level 30. 

Long time paladin player. I didnt hear about seal twisting until TBC anniversary and I regret not knowing about its existence for so long.

Its been the most fun I've had as a dps since I've started playing this game back in the original TBC. I was hesitant to learn it, frustrated while learning. But the payout is indescribable.

I dont like how forever is going to strip away a tool all Paladins could take advantage of. It wasn't a ret only technique. On paper, it sounds better from a dps perspective (more generous seal timing = more ability spam) but the rotation will be thoughtless button spam in between your seal echo preparations.

 In TBC, your rotations would depend on haste and vary a bit based on the fact that your CDs dont line up perfectly with your weapon swings all of the time. There were times abilities had to be delayed to prioritize seal twisting. Crusader strike is more dps than your average "failed" seal twist so sometimes its prioritized in a rotation. There's a learning curve and quick decision making but it all pays off so incredibly well when you nail it all.

Im all for making it more accessible. But I would really like if both versions of twisting were available. I dont think one will make the other obsolete. If you keep the old seal twisting, you dont have to go for the new talent and spend your points in other talents. The new talent will benefit more from ability usage where the old twist can benefit more from physical weapon damage.

What im specifically talking about is the difference between the 3 races and why humans get 1% more crit over the others. Dwarf hunters will get nothing (unless they can use maces), orc hunters will get 1% crit. 

But on second thought, maybe the 2% sword increase is trying to make up the difference for PvE bonuses. Dwarf tanks get stoneform  (Sry dwarf dps players) while orcs will get bloodfury. Will to survive would be used very sparingly in PvE where the other two can be used in every boss fight.

Its weird. I initialy thought it was increased hit, but it only increases the crit chance of abilities. 

Warriors themselves get increased crit chance with axes, so nerfing the axe specialization would make some sense, but not maces. 

Rogues weapon specialty lumps swords and axes together, so humans will have a better advantage with swords than orcs do with axes.

The only thing dwarves and orcs have in common is that they can both play as shamans. So I was thinking it had to do with that? Both paladins and enh shaman get at least a flat 5% crit chance increase via talents. 

Lastly the text notes all spells/abilities. So this crit bonus should extend to casters. Dwarf priest and ele sham can make use of the crit with maces. Human Mages/locks can use swords. Orcs only has ele shams with axes. 

So again, unless there's something blizzard is afraid of giving shams 1% extra crit. The 1% less crit dwarves/orcs receive is very strange.

I can only say its a fun mechanic, its sort of like wave dashing in smash melee, or like trimping in TF2. Unintended mechanics that add an extra layer of depth to a game/class/role that doesn't break the game or make said mechanic feel unfair. Good news with the talent, it sounds like its a lot easier to pull off and you don't need your eyes glued to a swing timer. I prefer when it was a class wide mechanic and not something exclusive for ret. It'll be like when they removed wave dashing from brawl (people didn't like that and modded it back in with project M).

And it seems that they've embraced it to some degree. I don't see your point unless you're advocating for the total removal of seal twisting of any kind.