u/chadan1008

I can’t generate tasteful images of myself being eaten by gargantuan nude women but ChatGPT has no problem hacking people 🤔literally 1984

No, people will hate you if you release a product obviously or significantly lacking in quality.

If it were hypothetically free of ethical, health, or any other significant concerns, sure, because then it'd be just like any other food. But just like the comparison to human feces hypothetically free of similar concerns, it's a hypothetical based around fundamentally changing the thing we're talking about.

Yeah, a metaphor which proves my point entirely lol. Quality food is food which tastes good, value for money, healthy, etc. If feces had these traits, it would therefore be quality food.

Living alone is unfortunately a luxury due to demand and limited space and whatever. My college apartment was $700 and I lived with 3 others, but I had my own room and bathroom. It was amazing.

Reptilian Lance Stroll

If shit didn’t have an awful taste and smell, plus nutritional benefits, and no significant ill effects yes we probably would be eating it, just like lots of other animals do. In fact it would be fantastic for the world if so - imagine how much water and electricity we could save on plumbing if poop was a quality food, edible and nutritious.

But what if AI were capable of generating a huge, quality mod?  What if a huge, quality mod like GTNH or Create or AE2, or even all of Minecraft itself, were hypothetically revealed to be 100% AI generated, from code to assets to whatever else? They’d still be great, quality work!

Whether that’s true or not, point is quality is what’s important at the end of the day

But that couldn’t be “inherently” true - if AI had no useful or quality output, most would have no use for it

As long as it’s quality, it really is the most important thing

I don't know, he's pretty trim, mate.

There's no peaceful solution to a coup either... oh wait, there is, do enough melodrama and people will get bored and leave lmaoooo and yes I was on my phone during it, because I was watching it on my phone! Nice try! I hope that makes you feel better about the writing being poor, because yes, striking first instead of attempting to communicate, even after she just publicly worked to defend Ellora from a threat, is stupid. He's convinced people before, and if what you're saying was true then surely nobody would be helping her, not even him, and surely not Jae!

Maybe if you put more words in bold you'll convince yourself the writing isn't cringe at times! Sheesh! Again I get it's a kids show, but still, no need for all this contrived melodrama for drama's sake.

Holy defensiveness! sorry for criticizing your show, I guess? but that’s  a lot of words to say “I (still) am not reading your comment,” because you could’ve cut it in half if you had, and another quarter if you’d actually responded to it and not whatever else you’re talking about

He acted like a “tumor brained dipshit” by not even attempting communication and instead jumping right into fight-mode, yes, because that removes the chance of a peaceful resolution, as it positions himself and the avatar as openly hostile to them.  And I called it plot armor because instead of the story being written in a believable or organic way, it feels rather contrived. We got communication instead of a fight and then a fight instead of communication, and in both cases it was quite cringeworthy

Yea we also had 9 episodes of people hating the faceless, but after one melodramatic monologue at dinner we have everyone walking away with them after some mumbling. I get this is a kid’s show but come on, just lazy and cringeworthy writing, plot armor instead of a more organic kind of storytelling. It’s sad when I leave scenes sarcastically saying “well that was believable!” but it does happen so often.  

Yes, I do find it hard to understand why the guy who wants to protect the avatar would exacerbate the danger the Avatar is in by jumping straight into hostilities rather than communication, especially given the fact the Avatar’s first public appearance was defending Ellora from a known threat like the faceless. But if you’d like to find where I said “magically undoing centuries of bla bla bla,” I’d be happy to address that.

Man, the dialogue is really making me cringe so hard. We just spent 30 minutes watching one character after another melodramatically monologuing (with little quips and goofy lines thrown in from others), all tense, the faceless queen unmasking herself and melodramatically convincing benders to her side, and now the avatar reveals herself and everyone’s just watching… and then Karthik steps in and obviously can’t even say a word in her defense at all, he just has to go all guns blazing because of… reasons.

Its so sad because this world is pretty cool so far but man the dialogue is so bad, my face really spent 20 minutes cringed through the whole episode

And the plague did not, in fact, infect everyone in Stratholme with no hope of them not turning to the Scourge, actually. Numerous sources mention survivors, and regardless Arthas had no way to tell which individuals or what percent of the population was infected. Would he still have been justified if it turned out only 50% had eaten the grain? What about 5%?

If ALL of Stratholme can be wiped out because SOME of its population is known to be infected, then yes, all of Azeroth can be wiped out. If a = b, and b = c, then a = c. SOME of Lordaeron was infected, so it can all be wiped out. SOME of Azeroth was infected, so it can all be wiped out. Their logic is the same, and it is fundamentally the same as every villain: their results justify their evil actions.

She wishes she could’ve done more to stop him, not join him.

”As she looked over the ruins, Jaina cursed herself for not doing something to prevent the carnage. She could have used her magic to restrain Arthas, but she didn’t. Her inaction had allowed the prince to commit an act that would haunt him for the rest of his days. And her own regret would weigh on Jaina in the years ahead.”

You are wrong. He was, and the lore establishes Stratholme as his point of no return.

Quotes from the Warcraft Chronicle, volume 3, page 48, under the section “The Culling Of Stratholme:”

“Jaina Proudmoore noticed a change in Arthas Menethil. Hate dominated his thoughts… she feared that the quest was taking a heavy toll on his psyche.”

“She urged him to show restraint, but her words fell on deaf ears.”

“En route to Stratholme, Arthas and Jaina were joined by the one person in Lordaeron who had the power to talk some sense into the prince: Uther.”

“When Uther joined Arthas on his quest, he sensed that something was amiss with the young Paladin… but believed he would come to his senses.”

Then, under the section “The Cursed Blade:”

“The culling of Stratholme was the point of no return for Prince Arthas Menethil. His heart had darkened, and his sanity was unraveling. He was almost ready to become the Lich King’s greatest servant.”

These quotes more than prove his mental state had deteriorated even before Stratholme. The discussion between them at Stratholme also shows Arthas angrily dismissing and rejecting both of them and even disbanding the Paladin order. He was not thinking clearly or rationally at this point, hate and anger had very much so consumed him.

The reason this is going nowhere is you have yet to answer the real question, which I will ask in clear terms now: at what point exactly does the indiscriminate murder of countless innocent people become acceptable? Every atrocity and every villain, including Arthas and Stratholme, is based on answering this question with anything other than “it never is,” and again, our own history is so full of it we have now developed the concept of universal and inalienable human rights to prevent further tragedies. The logic is persuasive on first glance - commit a grave sin for a good purpose - but in truth can be extended to even galactic scales, as Sargeras proves. Almost every villain ever uses some version of this logic to justify their actions, from genocides to wars to destroying entire planets.

It’s not apples to oranges at all, it’s logically the exact same. Arthas didn’t know who was infected and who was not, simply that SOME were. Would he still be justified if only 95% were infected? What about 50%, or 5%?  If SOME of Stratholme being infected justifies killing ALL its inhabitants, then ALL of Lordaeron can be killed, because some of it is infected. SOME of Azeroth was infected, so ALL of its inhabitants can be written off. The logic can easily be extended up to Sargeras, because it is exactly how he justifies his actions.

Maybe if he listened to Jaina and Uther and didn’t allow himself to be consumed by rage and hate they could’ve come up with a better plan. Maybe if he hadn’t chosen evil he could have even saved his kingdom! Or maybe not. Either way, it still doesn’t justify what he did. Every atrocity you can imagine, fictional or not, is justified in the same way by the perpetrators to make it sound noble or necessary: we had to, it was life or death fight for survival, we were defending ourselves, etc. These are so persuasive that history is full of it and atrocities, and it’s why we’ve devised concepts like universal and inalienable human rights.

Arthas didn’t give them an opportunity to look for other solutions, and he didn’t care to. He was so consumed by rage and hate he was willing to abandon everything and everyone. It was his point of no return, and it was set up to be that by the Scourge. Again, they won at Stratholme, not Arthas.  The “moral superiority” of not indiscriminately murdering countless innocent people. Yup. That is moral superiority in every single way imaginable. Turns out murder is wrong and offensive, who knew?

The Scourge isn’t just mindless destruction. They have a purpose, and Ner’zhul and other leaders of it have their own motivations, and they think their motivations justify their methods. Their methods are typically indiscriminate slaughter. This is Arthas’ logic and Arthas’ method at Stratholme. He is acting like the Scourge, and like every other villain. Why does Sargeras want to destroy Azeroth? Is he bored? Nothing better to do? No, he believes he is protecting the universe from the Void. 

Arthas is Sargeras on a smaller level, but look how easily his logic extends upwards: if ALL of Stratholme can be written off become SOME of its inhabitants are infected, then ALL of Lordaeron can too, and ALL of Azeroth, because SOME of their inhabitants were infected. After purging Stratholme, should Arthas or someone else have killed everyone else in Lordaeron, Dalaran, and Quel’Thalas? It wasn’t long before they’d be mostly Scourge minions too!

Why just zombies? Why would that logic not apply to a living threat?

The rest of Lordaeron, Dalaran, and Quel’Thalas were largely doomed to turn into zombies - should Arthas or someone else have killed everyone there too after Stratholme? At what point in the mass slaughter of innocent people are you simply doing the job of the enemy you face, best known for its mass slaughter of innocent people?

And it was such a great solution it led to the total destruction of the kingdom of Lordaeron and the personal downfall of Arthas. We have no idea of any other possible outcome, because there is only one canon timeline: the one where the villains win. Arthas and Lordaeron lost at Stratholme.

Uther and Jaina didn’t abandon him, he abandoned them by acting in a totally evil manner, again in the same manner as the Scourge, and then ignoring and dismissing them and even disbanding the Paladin order. He allowed himself to become so consumed by rage and hate he abandoned his friends, principles, Paladin order, and yes, himself and his people and his kingdom.

By choosing to act as the Scourge acts, he became no better than them. They have reasons for the things they do too, and so does every villain! Almost every atrocity you can think of is justified by the perpetrators in ways that sound very noble and just: we had to, we had no other choice, it was life or death, we were defending ourselves, etc. but it never is!

But again, why just a plague of undeath? What if the plague didn’t turn them undead, it just spread to their living brains and took control with no cure? What if it wasn’t even a plague, what if you were facing a normal human enemy who hated you and wanted to wipe you out, and refused any attempt at diplomacy or communication or peace?

it’s a pretty easy choice

it would obviously be extraordinarily difficult

Right. It’s easy to act emotionally, to allow your anger and hatred to consume you, and to abandon your morals and teachings, as Arthas did. It’s a lot harder to stick to them, even when times are tough and the villains of the world make their cause or methods sound really important or necessary.

You say it’s “just a game and not that deep,” but how can that be true given the implications of your logic extends far beyond fantasy or just the game? Again I’ll ask: at what point does it become acceptable to murder countless innocent people?

Why simply turn into an abomination that attacks the living? Would it be different if the plague kept its victims alive, and simply grew in their brain and eventually took control? How about a different existential threat, a group of evil people plotting your downfall and death, and who will forever do everything in their power to make it happen?

You’re trying to narrow it down to fantasy situations to avoid real life implications but you can’t, because the logic applies all the same. Take one look at any historical mass murder event and you’ll see this logic applied by a similar villain claiming to make tough but necessary decisions during a time of crisis. It’s the entire reason  we developed the concept of universal and inalienable human rights.

They were already dead. Everyone on that planet was going to not only die, but turn into an unfeeling, mindless weapon for the enemy, the Void.

Thank goodness we have noble heroes like Sargeras and Arthas to make the tough but virtuous decisions, and of course by that I mean indiscriminately slaughtering countless innocent people!

You didn’t answer my question so I’ll ask again: at what point exactly does the mass indiscriminate murder of innocent people become acceptable? Hasn’t human history taught us the answer is “there is no such point?”

it’s likely Lordaeron would’ve fallen much earlier

Speculation. We have no clue what else could have happened, because there’s only one canon timeline.

After Stratholme, should Arthas have gone and killed everyone else in Lordaeron? They were mostly destined to become Scourge too! And why stop there? If ALL of Stratholme can be written off because SOME of its inhabitants were infected, then surely ALL of Azeroth can be written off by the same logic, because SOME of its inhabitants were infected? Can you see how the line between Arthas and Sargeras is smaller than one might initially think?