When Buddhism goes bad: A new book investigates the death of Ian Thorson and the controversial Michael Roach
22 comments · 73% upvoted · source · other discussions
22 comments · 73% upvoted · source · other discussions
A Tragedy of an American style Mc-Buddhism. Though not scientifically investigated and proven, a variety of negative side effects of wrong-headed meditation practice have been well known in every traditional major schools of Buddhism through long time experiences, and each of those schools has its own know-hows to deal with such problems. (Be it Theravada, Tibetan or Far east Asian Mahayana Buddhism - Zen Buddhism-). Why did they ignore the traditions?
Carney thinks everyone involved underestimated the power of practices like extended meditation and vows of silence. Leading an abroad program for American students in India in his postgraduate years, he took his charges on a 10-day silent retreat in the sacred town of Bodh Gaya. One of them, an apparently stable 21-year-old named Emily, jumped off the roof of the dormitory after writing “I am a Bodhisattva” in her journal. The experience left Carney with a healthy respect for the slower paths to enlightenment recommended for most students of Buddhism, and the rules laid down by Tibetan lamas and observed by the many generations who have passed down the faith.
By contrast, Roach and McNally, like many Westerners infatuated with Eastern spirituality are “particularly susceptible to grandiose expectations.” They talked of supernatural powers and of embodying divine beings, or of completely reshaping one’s lot in life by performing simple karmic gestures. Their followers gobbled up these extravagant quick-fix testimonials. “For Tibetans,” Carney writes, “the focus is on the process. For whatever reason, Americans search for inner peace like they are competing in a sporting event.”
I think it is unfortunate that we need a sad story and someone to blame in order to have a story about american Buddhism put forth by the larger media. But I suppose I comment just to try and lend personal context..if all you read about him was this article, I can see that leaving a horrible taste in your mouth. I am not an active student by any stretch but his motives have always felt sound from my (admittedly limited) perspective
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If I understood the way that Karma works, I would tell you.
Remember this. Anything which deviates from said monoculture, is going to be reflexively categorised as a threat; and that includes Buddhism. So you can bet that they will use this incident, and any others like it, as much as they can to reinforce the illusion that while people are "free," you should not choose anything other than the mainstream monoculture, because everything else is supposedly inherently harmful and dangerous.
You virtually will not find a spiritual leader of any kind during the current age, who is not corrupt. A couple exist perhaps, but very few. For the most part however, they are absolutely not to be trusted. Group dynamics are also exceptionally dangerous during Aquarius in particular; developmental or spiritual work should ideally be done alone.
The man in the linked article is fairly obviously a cult leader, and may also be a sexual deviant from the sounds of things, and otherwise psychopathic/mentally ill. Usually such people identify religions as something that they can use as a basis for manipulating people and making money.
This article focuses mostly on speculation and defamation, and it glazes over the fact that Mr. Thorson had a history of mental illness. It seems like it probably doesn't belong in /r/Buddhism.
Geshe Michael has been fairly specific that he is acting in accordance with his teachers wishes, and there seems to be a lot of rumor mixed in and presented as fact. I think if they are going to be sensationalist, they should at least provide a clear and unbiased accounting of his strengths along with his flaws. He does work very hard to preserve Tibetan literature and to support his former monastery, and having been there I know that those who know him there think very well of him.
Take clickbait articles with a grain of salt..
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Source...the article mentions it? Prone to fits of anger? I suppose that I would corroborate that with actually having met the man.
I appreciate the fact that Khen Rinpoche did not write an endorsement of his book, but all I can do from that is speculate the reasons behind it. You can also assume whatever you like about Lama Zopa and the FPMT centers, but it is as you have stated, assumption. Neither fact has anything to do with whether or not he was acting in accordance with his Lama's wishes.
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It's a jump, unless you personally consider "fits of anger" to be "mental illness", which I personally do. If you do not agree on that point then there is no use to us continuing this discussion, and we can leave it at that.
My speculation is based on Geshe Michael's own comments, nothing more. If there is disapproval, let it be made public. Otherwise, let's refrain from generating rumors.
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On the other hand, my personal experiences with monks at Sera Mey with regards to GMR were all very positive. I am just trying to convey a difference of opinion.
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My experience with GMR was entirely during the period where Christie McNally was a partner of Ian. I had limited interaction with her...I saw them (GMR + Christie) speak together once. I can't offer opinion on any of that.. just to the GMR that was teaching outside of the 3 year retreat that she was presiding over, and to the GMR that I met via the monks I met at Sera Mey. There was nothing about the teachings that I attended that felt suspect to me, and though I am not a practicing Mahayana Buddhist, I am grateful for what was offered to me there.
I don't want to downplay the tragedy. I think there is a lot of information here that is absolutely useless in the context of Ian's death.
Basically you're saying you believe what GMR says regardless of evidence suggesting otherwise?
Specific evidence is convincing, opinion and speculation is not. Again, I am not an active student, or even a practicing Mahayana Buddhist. I find the situation tragic. I don't appreciate the tone that the article conveys, and I feel it is biased when it should be balanced.
Actually I met Laura Miller when we were both fresh out of college, and she's a brilliant, sensitive, insightful person. "Clickbait" this is not.
"Geshe" Roach is an embarrassment to Buddhism. Far from the only one, but one of the worst.
She might be brilliant and insightful, but my personal opinion of the article is that it is biased and sensationalist. That is having never met her, but having met GMR.
I was shocked to find two (TWO!) comments defending GMR here, but then it turns out they are both made by the same person. So, phew.
[deleted] 3 points · Mar 2015
Haha!
My favorite tidbit was this—from the GMR 'Rolling Stone Interview':
So...banging non-humans is celibacy now...Ok What's bestiality?! XD
clickstation 0 points · Mar 2015
Banging humans-who-are-the-incarnation-of-a-goddess*
:D