Sure, we all could, but that's not going to help the show recover from an episode that isn't received well or soothe any dedicated fan's disappointment. It just leaves people who think it's objectively good (this is chill), and then people who are kissing the show's ass blindly (this is not chill).
How the hell is it not a good episode? I came off iPlayer thinking it was one of the best eps, now everyone is trashing it? Because it's about Mary? The writing was amazing, who cares?
Yeah I went in expecting something really amazing, and while there was something important that happened in the episode, the rest of it felt like low hanging fruit material.. Sherlock will whip up some of his trademark fast talking crime solving quotes, something something plot line hinting the "miss me" arc but ends up being a diversion every single time, and now we get sherlock and watson estranged again. Didn't we already have that whole drama when sherlock pretended to die and came back to life? Man I think i'll just go watch the first two seasons again..
Personally, i didn't think the episode itself was terrible. I would have liked it as a "middle episode", but i thought it was a terrible season opener as we learned absolutely nothing about Moriarty, which is what the entire cliffhanger was about. Not only did we learn nothing about him, but they constantly teased him to get the viewer's hopes up. Personally, I felt super disappointed.
Having a discussion about something isn't bitching, it just so happens to be that the majority have a negative opinion about this episode, there's nothing wrong with that.
The writing was amazing? What the fuck planet are you living on?
I don't care if you 'enjoyed' the episode or not, but OBJECTIVELY the writing was fucking terrible.
Well kindly enlighten me, because I thought that (minus a few things like the whole "E" thing) it was very well written, I especially liked the whole merchant story coming in to it, things like that.
Off the top of my head -
Mary jumping in front of a bullet (after it had been shot)
(pistol bullet intial velocity is around 380 m/s avg human reaction time is 250 ms, even if Mary has 100 ms thats 0.1 x 380 = 38 meters the bullet travels before it's possible for her to react to it)
The case at the beginning that was just "he died for no particular reason" - the car exploding ?? - It just looks like literally no thought went into that case at all. If they'd thought about it for more than 5 minutes they could have written something good along the lines of the camera setting off an epileptic fit (just an example)
Most of the dialogue was terrible and cringe worthy. "What now?" "we die." "Who are you" "the man who will kill your friend" (paraphrasing cause I'm not looking up the exact lines)
The entire Mary death scene is cliche as fuck and had no originality to it.
Watsons weird fucking groans ?
The plot just being about Mary who's a terrible character in the first place and never should have been close to a main character.
They could have done something clever and original but as soon as I saw it was Marys usb shit again you just know it's the writers jerking themselves off to her shit character like the last 2 episodes.
the person behind it all being some fucking character we've never seen before and don't give a fuck about it. How is that not just lazy writing?
it isnt really a mystery when the culprit is introduced in the last 5 minutes and theres literally nothing to tie any of it together thats logical
tracks her to whatever country with a tracker in the USB yet he arrives at the house before her
london aquarium is right next to a hospital (sherlock earlier says he knows london thats why he wants to go back there with mary) no one tries taking her to a hospital or calling an ambulance
Really the biggest issue is Mary being the center of the episode when she is a terrible character that no one cares about because she is so badly written. Can anyone take her seriously as an ex-spy like character? I mean really?
There's hints of potential in the episode that's the sad thing, I liked the first 20 minutes or so then it just fell flat and I almost just left the room to stop watching I got so bored.
Writing like this is exactly whats wrong with the latest Doctor Who and why I stopped watching it. I enjoyed the first 2 seasons of this show and its a shame I'll probably stop watching this as well
Only about a third of the things you're criticising are actually "writing" issues. You can't blame the script because you disliked the way Watson cried
Well I actually agree with a lot of this that I never actually thought of, but to "it isnt really a mystery when the culprit is introduced in the last 5 minutes and theres literally nothing to tie any of it together thats logical" she was hinted to in the very beginning as being the culprit. Not saying she's a good character, but that's just plain wrong.
london aquarium is right next to a hospital (sherlock earlier says he knows london thats why he wants to go back there with mary) no one tries taking her to a hospital or calling an ambulance
John's a doctor. He probably knew that there was no way she would survive that. He was holding in her fucking guts. I'm sure someone called 911 but I think John of all people would know it wasn't worth trying and try to spend his wife's last moments with her.
It was absolutely terrible. I'm going to sound arrogant, but if you believe that was good television, then you just don't know what you're talking about.
It kind of is though. There are so many plot holes and flaws in logic, it seems like a kid wrote the plot, and while it did have some nice moments, predictability and a stupid plot make this episode bad. You can't argue that the logic behind pretty much everything in this episode was flawed.
Then I can also argue that Mary's character is boring and that a show called Sherlock should be about, you know, Sherlock solving impossible mysteries, but that is, indeed, opinion.
I'm sorry, I don't want to be a dick, but there were too many flaws for me to overlook, and the plot was just too boring for the episode to be any good...
Also it's supposed to be Sherlock, not generic Super-Spy shit.
Well it's the same audience who like Dr Who, Supernatural, and likely those Mavel TV programmes such as Flash etc. The quality of these shows just aren't as good as what other people are accustomed to, Hannibal, House of Cards (the first two seasons anyway) Breaking Bad etc. All of which masterfully handle cinematography, dialogue, exposition and character development. And Sherlock was up there in the cannon of TV shows that were of stellar quality. Until this episode.
I'm not saying everything was bad, my main concern was the plot. I enjoyed it up to the part where Mary started travelling about randomly for literally no reason and the plot became so convoluted. The main 'mystery' I stopped caring about, so someone said 'ammo' on the phone, who cares?
They develop Mary a bit more, but her spy background has always been, in my opinion, the worst part of the series. At least now she's dead the next episodes can focus on Sherlock.
Why does the joke need to require effort? If it's funny, that's all that matters, obviously it's exaggeration for effect, we don't think it was terrible, but of a lower quality than previous episodes.
Whining is complaining in a feeble way, people voicing their opinion is not feeble, but calling people whiny just because they have a different opinion is unnecessary and not appropriate, as it creates arguments, not discussion.
I'm not saying jokes require effort, but it's a massive stretch to defend the original post of a man saying that was fucking dreadful as "voicing an opinion" but criticising a comment calling them whiny because you don't think it's good discussion.
Joke or not, it was whining, and I don't think it's the kind of post that invites detailed replies defending the episode.
God you people are whiny.
menwithrobots 43 points · Jan 2017
Why should we kiss the show's ass blindly if the writers can't deliver anymore?
[deleted] -1 points · Jan 2017
[removed]
Ratkinzluver33 4 points · Jan 2017
Sure, we all could, but that's not going to help the show recover from an episode that isn't received well or soothe any dedicated fan's disappointment. It just leaves people who think it's objectively good (this is chill), and then people who are kissing the show's ass blindly (this is not chill).
Hfran 1 points · Jan 2017
Fuck people for stating opinions in a public forum.
[deleted] -1 points · Jan 2017
Writer* Moffat has won two Emmy's for the last two. And every major publication disagrees with you on this.
[deleted] 16 points · Jan 2017
I do believe I'm an authority on my own opinion.
ohrightthatswhy 2 points · Jan 2017
Gatiss Co writes. And people are acknowledging his/their past efforts, but winning an award means Jack shit if you can't write believable dialogue.
Conkoon 129 points · Jan 2017
The show has a good track record, we're expecting something great, this was dull and nothing like previous seasons.
Isn't this sub here for discussion? Throwing insults isn't discussion.
[deleted] 31 points · Jan 2017
How the hell is it not a good episode? I came off iPlayer thinking it was one of the best eps, now everyone is trashing it? Because it's about Mary? The writing was amazing, who cares?
DeercWerdna 38 points · Jan 2017
Amazing's not the word I would use, no.
But I'm glad you liked the episode. However, it seems, that most of us here did not.
alpha-k 6 points · Jan 2017
Yeah I went in expecting something really amazing, and while there was something important that happened in the episode, the rest of it felt like low hanging fruit material.. Sherlock will whip up some of his trademark fast talking crime solving quotes, something something plot line hinting the "miss me" arc but ends up being a diversion every single time, and now we get sherlock and watson estranged again. Didn't we already have that whole drama when sherlock pretended to die and came back to life? Man I think i'll just go watch the first two seasons again..
[deleted] 105 points · Jan 2017
Well, that's more then a little debatable.
Ihavetheinternets 0 points · Jan 2017
I agree with you but I found it ironic how we're talking about writing and you use the wrong "than".
odoisawesome 9 points · Jan 2017
Personally, i didn't think the episode itself was terrible. I would have liked it as a "middle episode", but i thought it was a terrible season opener as we learned absolutely nothing about Moriarty, which is what the entire cliffhanger was about. Not only did we learn nothing about him, but they constantly teased him to get the viewer's hopes up. Personally, I felt super disappointed.
[deleted] 11 points · Jan 2017
[deleted]
ThisFabledStreet 7 points · Jan 2017
Me too. Seems so many people stick around just to bitch about it.
Conkoon 14 points · Jan 2017
Having a discussion about something isn't bitching, it just so happens to be that the majority have a negative opinion about this episode, there's nothing wrong with that.
[deleted] 3 points · Jan 2017
[deleted]
oleandersun 2 points · Jan 2017
And yet, the entire last season wasn't even remotely related to that. So what is the concern here about this being "different from previous seasons"?
A lot of you guys are acting as if you haven't watched the show in years and are projecting what you think Sherlock is.
The complaints about the culprit could be applied to S1E1
[deleted] 18 points · Jan 2017
The writing was amazing? What the fuck planet are you living on? I don't care if you 'enjoyed' the episode or not, but OBJECTIVELY the writing was fucking terrible.
[deleted] -1 points · Jan 2017
Well kindly enlighten me, because I thought that (minus a few things like the whole "E" thing) it was very well written, I especially liked the whole merchant story coming in to it, things like that.
[deleted] 35 points · Jan 2017
Off the top of my head - Mary jumping in front of a bullet (after it had been shot) (pistol bullet intial velocity is around 380 m/s avg human reaction time is 250 ms, even if Mary has 100 ms thats 0.1 x 380 = 38 meters the bullet travels before it's possible for her to react to it)
The case at the beginning that was just "he died for no particular reason" - the car exploding ?? - It just looks like literally no thought went into that case at all. If they'd thought about it for more than 5 minutes they could have written something good along the lines of the camera setting off an epileptic fit (just an example)
Most of the dialogue was terrible and cringe worthy. "What now?" "we die." "Who are you" "the man who will kill your friend" (paraphrasing cause I'm not looking up the exact lines)
The entire Mary death scene is cliche as fuck and had no originality to it.
Watsons weird fucking groans ?
The plot just being about Mary who's a terrible character in the first place and never should have been close to a main character. They could have done something clever and original but as soon as I saw it was Marys usb shit again you just know it's the writers jerking themselves off to her shit character like the last 2 episodes.
the person behind it all being some fucking character we've never seen before and don't give a fuck about it. How is that not just lazy writing?
it isnt really a mystery when the culprit is introduced in the last 5 minutes and theres literally nothing to tie any of it together thats logical
tracks her to whatever country with a tracker in the USB yet he arrives at the house before her
london aquarium is right next to a hospital (sherlock earlier says he knows london thats why he wants to go back there with mary) no one tries taking her to a hospital or calling an ambulance
Really the biggest issue is Mary being the center of the episode when she is a terrible character that no one cares about because she is so badly written. Can anyone take her seriously as an ex-spy like character? I mean really?
There's hints of potential in the episode that's the sad thing, I liked the first 20 minutes or so then it just fell flat and I almost just left the room to stop watching I got so bored.
Writing like this is exactly whats wrong with the latest Doctor Who and why I stopped watching it. I enjoyed the first 2 seasons of this show and its a shame I'll probably stop watching this as well
paulibobo 11 points · Jan 2017
I disagree!
Watson's groans were the best part!
sofapizza 1 points · Jan 2017
And Martin improvised those! hahaha :)
homerghost 3 points · Jan 2017
Only about a third of the things you're criticising are actually "writing" issues. You can't blame the script because you disliked the way Watson cried
[deleted] 1 points · Jan 2017
Well I actually agree with a lot of this that I never actually thought of, but to "it isnt really a mystery when the culprit is introduced in the last 5 minutes and theres literally nothing to tie any of it together thats logical" she was hinted to in the very beginning as being the culprit. Not saying she's a good character, but that's just plain wrong.
kayelar 1 points · Jan 2017
John's a doctor. He probably knew that there was no way she would survive that. He was holding in her fucking guts. I'm sure someone called 911 but I think John of all people would know it wasn't worth trying and try to spend his wife's last moments with her.
sheephunt2000 2 points · Jan 2017
Did no one hear Sherlock tell Mycroft to get an ambulance immediately after Mary was shot?
ohrightthatswhy 2 points · Jan 2017
999 in Britain boyo
paulibobo 1 points · Jan 2017
It was absolutely terrible. I'm going to sound arrogant, but if you believe that was good television, then you just don't know what you're talking about.
kayelar 7 points · Jan 2017
And you do? Sorry you're angry, but your opinion is an opinion. The show was in no way undeniably objectively bad.
paulibobo 1 points · Jan 2017
It kind of is though. There are so many plot holes and flaws in logic, it seems like a kid wrote the plot, and while it did have some nice moments, predictability and a stupid plot make this episode bad. You can't argue that the logic behind pretty much everything in this episode was flawed.
Then I can also argue that Mary's character is boring and that a show called Sherlock should be about, you know, Sherlock solving impossible mysteries, but that is, indeed, opinion.
[deleted] 5 points · Jan 2017
I feel like I have decent taste but who knows, people really seem to hate this episode.
paulibobo 0 points · Jan 2017
I'm sorry, I don't want to be a dick, but there were too many flaws for me to overlook, and the plot was just too boring for the episode to be any good...
Also it's supposed to be Sherlock, not generic Super-Spy shit.
ohrightthatswhy 2 points · Jan 2017
Well it's the same audience who like Dr Who, Supernatural, and likely those Mavel TV programmes such as Flash etc. The quality of these shows just aren't as good as what other people are accustomed to, Hannibal, House of Cards (the first two seasons anyway) Breaking Bad etc. All of which masterfully handle cinematography, dialogue, exposition and character development. And Sherlock was up there in the cannon of TV shows that were of stellar quality. Until this episode.
VesperalLight 8 points · Jan 2017
Triggered
ohrightthatswhy 2 points · Jan 2017
I mean it is shit.
VesperalLight 5 points · Jan 2017
Flash is DC
ohrightthatswhy 1 points · Jan 2017
Wait really?
VesperalLight 1 points · Jan 2017
Yeah
ohrightthatswhy 1 points · Jan 2017
Well there's something called an opinion.
Benmjt 1 points · Jan 2017
Holy shit, amazing?? It was total dog shit.
kayelar 2 points · Jan 2017
I thought it was a good episode. It wasn't as snappy and flashy with the writing as previous episodes but the character development was great.
Conkoon 3 points · Jan 2017
I'm not saying everything was bad, my main concern was the plot. I enjoyed it up to the part where Mary started travelling about randomly for literally no reason and the plot became so convoluted. The main 'mystery' I stopped caring about, so someone said 'ammo' on the phone, who cares?
They develop Mary a bit more, but her spy background has always been, in my opinion, the worst part of the series. At least now she's dead the next episodes can focus on Sherlock.
homerghost 1 points · Jan 2017
A video clip of someone saying "Well that was fucking dreadful" is hardly discussion either.
Conkoon 2 points · Jan 2017
It's a joke?
homerghost 1 points · Jan 2017
Clearly it's a joke, but that doesn't excuse it from being low-effort. The "whiny" response was totally appropriate.
Applicable only to things you disagree with?
Conkoon 3 points · Jan 2017
Why does the joke need to require effort? If it's funny, that's all that matters, obviously it's exaggeration for effect, we don't think it was terrible, but of a lower quality than previous episodes.
Whining is complaining in a feeble way, people voicing their opinion is not feeble, but calling people whiny just because they have a different opinion is unnecessary and not appropriate, as it creates arguments, not discussion.
homerghost 1 points · Jan 2017
I'm not saying jokes require effort, but it's a massive stretch to defend the original post of a man saying that was fucking dreadful as "voicing an opinion" but criticising a comment calling them whiny because you don't think it's good discussion.
Joke or not, it was whining, and I don't think it's the kind of post that invites detailed replies defending the episode.