Tactix skaven vs ONG

My regular sparring partner has a cheesy little trick. There might be more to it but from memory he likes to bring a big horde of night goblin archers with a spider banner bsb. Only a small difference with the poison affect but the horde means the law of averages really catches up with me. I can never deal with the tar pit because of screening units employed against me that demand a response like mangler squigs and the like. This means they get several vollys off and often remain out of reach the whole game, decimating my units.

Im very much a rookie and he is a few levels above me in terms of grasp and tactics.

I would like to appeal to the community for ideas to deal with this.

Im not quite sure how crush embedded BSBs that are out of reach but since he loves this tactic and will most certainly do it again next game.

I imagine the go is to bring an assassin and try my luck?

Does anyone have an idea to help me counter this??

If something i have said doesnt make sense then i am probably wrong fyi. I have only ever played like 4 or so games and really struggle with the flow Ta

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comments

Jurassic_Red

An assassin might work to deal with the BSB but have you considered just trying to kill the unit from range instead?

Try look at bringing some artillery to deal with the unit outside of their range. Something like a plague claw or some poison wind mortars to just mess with the unit from range. Given how squishy goblins are one or two decent hits will decimate the unit and drastically reduce how much damage they can put out

Working_Bass3785 [OP]

Isnt it a shame i built both of my artillery units as WLCs then! Haha i do have plenty of poison wind weapons teams though i thought they were better reserved for armored matchups. I have very much leaned away from pestilens. I have a heap of monks all in sprue still.

Jurassic_Red

Cannons might work, you’ll just need to ensure you have a clean LoS to them and you might be getting a bit close for comfort with an average of just ~28 inches in range. Even then you might not get enough hits on the unit to properly make a dent.

Maybe look at using magic to try and bring the unit down, there’s a fair few decent blasting spells that can mess up a unit and the cloud of corruption blocks LoS so will also help reduce the damage they do with ranged attacks

ComfortableWise8783

A nice vortex spell maybe?

Pillar of Fire from the battle magic lore is a good one to encourage blocks to move as it doesn't more randomly, you move it the direction you like (and it moves at start of both players turns).

It's d3+3 St 3 hits, so good against low T units like Goblins. At least 4 hits each time so on average 2 kills (6 kills if you roll well).

Get it to keep hitting the back of the unit so he's forced to either suffer it or advance.

Working_Bass3785 [OP]

Sir i have responded to my post intending to respond to your comment. Please excuse my folly.

ComfortableWise8783

Folly excused 🙂

Working_Bass3785 [OP]

I do like this but that sounds like a lore of fire spell to me. Warp lightening is obviously the most accessible spell but its OP for low T units i believe. Maybe scorch? I cant really think of any nice vortex spells for skaven at the minute but will give it a good look in thank you!

ComfortableWise8783

I might be wrong (not got PDF on this phone so sorry if I am) but Seers and Engineers should have access to battle magic.

If you want to make sure you get Pillar of Fire (main book p321) you can buy a magic item called "Lore Familiar" which lets you pick your spells not randomly roll them.

Atom_sparven

This isn't TOW. Sounds like 8th edition where skaven have access their own two lores only

ComfortableWise8783

My fault, been reading too many TOW posts lately.

Atom_sparven

No worries, we all have lol

Working_Bass3785 [OP]

Three i think. Forgetting theie names you get eshin magic. Pestilens and essentially skryre magic

Atom_sparven

Hmm are you playing Warhammer Armies Project? I don't know anything about the older editions but skaven in 7th (which is what they had for 8th as well since that was their last book) only have lore of ruin and plague.

Working_Bass3785 [OP]

Thats right. I couldnt think of the lore names at the time but it is ruin and plague. Im running 7th with errata ammendments

Atom_sparven

Ah. I've faced that army countless times and big blocks of infantry (especially trash like night gobbos) shouldn't scare you.

A Grey seer with lore of Plague will destroy large units of low T units. Also an engineer with a doom rocket should be staple since it would be a pretty easy target to aim for. Warpfire thrower might also be worth a shot since he only has 18" range on his bows.

In general, try putting few eggs in every basket since although the shooting from that unit is dangerous for whatever it is he shoots at, he can only shoot at one thing every turn.

saharien

First, a few things to point out. 

  1. The horde rule doesn’t increase the amount of models that can fire, still just the front two ranks, plus whatever volley fire (from the short bows) adds. 
  2. Short bows are only 18” range. Anything past 9” will be -1 to hit. If he moves that’s an extra -1,  and volley fire won’t work. He can’t even get any shots off on a normal Battleline scenario if he went first. And range is measured on a per model basis, so his front rank may be in range, but his back ones could be out of range. Since you can always premeasure, and given the speed of skaven, you can just always stay 10” away and will still most likely make any charges against him, while he will either continue to have a -1 for range, or a -1 if he moves closer. 
  3. Skaven cheap stuff is cheaper than goblin cheap stuff. Run several single giant rat packs (5 rats, 1 pack master, in a 2x3 formation) Once his manglers start heading towards things, just run a rat pack straight at the mangler. Yeah, it kills the giant rat pack, but it also kills the mangler, and considering manglers are 3x the cost of a rat pack, that’s a great trade. 
  4. Units provide hard cover to other units behind them. Take two 40 strong units if Skaven slaves with slings. Deploy them side by side 20x2. Put everything else in your army behind them. If slaves die, no one cares. If he ignores the slaves and shoot at your other stuff he’s at -2 to hit, so at long range he’s hitting on 7s and can’t poison. See the statement above about short bow range. The slings are there just so you can shoot at his other blocking units like wolf riders. But, they also have the same range as his short bows. 
  5. Diversify your list. If you have multiple threats, your opponent has to spread out shooting. If all you have is one big threat unit, then of course everything is going to go at it. 
  6. Plague monks and rat ogres, even without armor have two benefits against  a shooting heavy list. With frenzy, they don’t care about casualties, plus if even a few get to their target they will do hella damage.
Working_Bass3785 [OP]

Wow. Hot tips. Thank you for taking the time. Especially about 1. I think weve been going off distance from the entire unit. I wasnt aware about volly for the rear combatants either!

Working_Bass3785 [OP]

I may have to lean more pestilens

emcdunna

Which rules or edition are you playing

Working_Bass3785 [OP]

8th but with TOW around the bend. I have ammended with the errata and was unknowingly using that fan made 8th for a while

emcdunna

If 8th, then hit this block with the doomrocket. It's an insanely accurate and cheap magic item that does a large blast template at S5. Goodbye goblins. Like he will be fearing you at that point!

Working_Bass3785 [OP]

Doom rocket... an engineer item?? I play TWWH3 so you have conjured exciting flashbacks. I have never used one on tabletop tho

emcdunna

Yes skaven are all but required to take these one use only magic items to win in 8th Ed

Doomrocket, brass orb, etc. Are all critical for the skaven to win