u/AnonJian

They need A/B split run testing and some acquaintance with the business concept of continuous improvement. Way too many launch like they are God's gift to business ...then wait, and wait, and wait. Months or a year in with barely anything to show for it they post to ask how much longer to wait.

Sure their newbie tingle deftly steered them through one hundred major decisions and five hundred minor decisions. And that goes for those who admit they don't know what in the hell they're doing.

Objections abound. Behavior indicts. The redesign happens the day after you crap out a site ...then never stops. And do yourselves a favor and read a business book or three. Sheesh. The Dunning-Kruger Business School should close.

One of the wantrepreneur myths is you don't need money to start. I think -- for those who adhere to this half-truth -- there is a lot of pressure to raise as soon as possible. They sure as hell can't generate revenue.

If vulture capitalists didn't design these myths they should have.

My take on this is they launch without adequate initial funding. You make it seem like founders have a choice.

You have much of what is necessary to do market demand research and the kind of customer discovery to answer your questions. Maybe you need a book recommendation such as The Mom Test - How to talk to customers & learn if your business is a good idea when everyone is lying to you.

Do not wallow in the advice from the very people who need your help desperately. As far as the high achiever is concerned, the number one blind spot has to be comprehending how very few are high achievement individuals and what the implications are.

Never ask such questions. You may already know why right about now.

Pretty obvious. Any insight into the job to be done -- the problem to be solved -- the customer served. It is profoundly unfortunate Fake It 'til You Make It culture isn't big on customer discovery.

Crapping out products market-blind ...nailed it. Understanding the customer ...not so much.

In other words, when the customer feels you understand their situation, you can make a sale without the standard artifacts most recommend. With product-market fit, much is possible.

Maybe not outrageous success, but a decent start and long-term survival. Let's call it breathing room to develop the things which contribute to success ...like testimonials ...like word-of-mouth ...like joint ventures.

It is a pity the kind of research into customer psychology to achieve that lynchpin is typically shot in the head, then buried in a shallow grave covered in bullshit. Calling that validation is somewhat, er ...disingenuous to a horrifying extreme. I'd call it something very much like seeming is being. But bullshitting covers it nicely too.

It's free, and I'm not trying to sell anything. I just want to build something people will actually use.

That could happen when and if you stop being everything to anybody. I think the mistake is seeing a feature treadmill as being a direction to go in. Where the next feature will be the magical one.

On the other hand, when there's no real business objective, three non-paying users is the same as three hundred. And any use at all equates to some level of usefulness. Set that hurdle low -- then limbo beneath.

How's mom?

They won't sell much if they don't listen, and I am talking about radical listening.

The difference between listening and pretending to listen, I discovered, is enormous. One is fluid, the other is rigid. One is alive, the other is stuffed. Eventually, I found a radical way of thinking about listening. Real listening is a willingness to let the other person change you. When I’m willing to let them change me, something happens between us that’s more interesting than a pair of dueling monologues.

Alan Alda, Never Have Your Dog Stuffed: And Other Things I've Learned

People validate like they are checking an item off a to-do list, they have to do this thing so they can launch what they already decided to develop. That's just wrong.

I'm now looking to connect with business owners, listen to their challenges, and help where I can using my experience in marketing, technology, and AI.

Every forum has problems and challenges posted ...newest to oldest, top to bottom. Spoon feeding wantrepreneurs the answer isn't one of them.

Do you want the answer you expect or a real one?

Differentiate from the competition. Develop a value proposition. And do explain what the business results were. The industry got into the very bad habit assuming when they stop coding, the problem automagically disappeared.

And, pray tell, how does one determine the 'right developer' because you don't exactly detail your way of working. I think one of the more overlooked advantages is explaining how you work with the client in such a way people see value in your workflow, not just output.

Can you give me an example of distinctiveness devoid of memorability? Level of Difficulty: Avengerz with a "z" invalid.

Oh damn, the ideal customer thing again. Skipping.

It's really an issue of how you use the name which makes it memorable. I'll give the example of two salons.

Curl Up And Dye is clever. A prospective customer seeing it is likely to think that owner is clever. Unfortunately that is as far as memorability goes: Simple Awareness. There is no follow-up motivating the prospect.

5 Minute Curls is smart. Prospects passing by wonder how do they do what my stylist takes forty minutes for? This prospect is on the path from awareness to interest. A more promising use of the name; putting the business name to work so to speak.

My opinion YARDDAWGS is clever, not smart about naming. While It may well 'work' at a bottom rung level, it's nothing noteworthy. In no way do I remember anything distinctive they do, others do not.

What I'm talking about is a name should always refer in some way to a value proposition; for a payoff it should be a Unique Selling Proposition (USP).

Unfortunately, while standard business procedure, wantrepreneurs consider what I just explained too thinky and definitely too wordy, certainly too difficult to execute. Amateurs like to have fun and naming, logo design, mascots and mottos are a race to the swing set at recess.

It's really about what you want to accomplish. My advice is about being smart, not clever. That will never be popular. A basic business formula going way back is Awareness ... Interest ... Desire ... Action. The objective is moving the prospect along the path to action. The less money you have, the more every element of the business must contribute to this process.

There a part of me that says I don't want retailers to have this greatness if they can't see it.

I don't understand what the problem may be. You showed them the video of focus group members fighting each other for the product, then running out with it before you could stop them, right?

The only mystery here is why humans aren't called Homo Hubris.

I really avoid use of the term "Ideal Customer Profile." Not that it isn't a legitimate term. Just that wantrepreneurs tend to mutilate perfectly good business terms beyond recognition.

Both ideal customer and niche are nearing total loss of meaning. Thanks internet.

Way too many wantrepreneurs thoroughly enjoy fucking up the research phase, customer discovery is no exception. The problem is, an ideal customer profile without data is just the founding team's imaginary friend. You'll notice many founders are throwing their voice, only to have it appear to come from a customer's mouth.

It's ...embarrassing to watch without the ventriloquist dummy.

Anyway. You find customers in the research phase. When people post to ask where to find first customers, that is a good clue research is either profoundly flawed or completely missing...

...Are there no people complaining about the urgent pain-point in forums? Then don't wonder nobody came running.

...Have three, six, twelve people replied to the online survey -- nobody paid but a moment's attention to fill out? Please don't post to ask if that's enough 'market traction' to launch. Cancel the project.

...Never thought to ask a prospective customer where they hang out online? Don't post here for magical right answers. Use your words.

...No conceivable way to target the prospect because the whole world needs your product? Either get tens-of-millions in venture funding or cancel the boil-the-ocean boondoggle.

...Refuse to do research because it might insert a crumb of doubt into the willing suspension of disbelief strategy the venture requires? Yeah ...no.

Plenty have claimed to conduct research. Others use the argument the auto industry validated the Edsel. Like everything else wantrepreneurs do, that research is profoundly flawed. Glass half full, nobody had to read a business book.

Buffer put up a landing page with subscription tiers -- Not A Product. Dropbox put out a video -- the product wasn't nearly ready. Tesla takes preorders. Founders with an Elon Musk quote nailed to the wall ...not so inspired.

Let me suggest nobody in their right mind should ever put the word "ideal" with the word "customer." It might cut down on the vast number of products targeted at leprechauns riding unicorns.

Do the samples talk? Or are you trying for a cheatcode to get out of business. Because sending out samples to randos will achieve that, in a way.

"You sent a sample? ...What sample? ...When was this??" Oh the hilarity set to ensue.

There are obvious mistakes. None are theirs.

In some families, raising your voice is a taboo. In others, it's paying retail. That's people, get a clue.

Next, I like you stuck to your guns. I don't like "I gave a price, what I felt as fair." Makes it sound arbitrary, a bit random.

Skipping the deposit was a no-no. For one thing it tends to signal if the customer or client is a flake. Perhaps more important, having a substantial deposit hanging in the balance makes people somewhat more reasonable. Finally, it's just good business practice.

You said -- They said. And now we're getting a lopsided post in a forum so you can 'feel' justified. There are always two sides to the story regardless of which has more merit.

I've noticed a disturbing and widespread inability to understand the customer and worse, comprehend human nature. As a businessperson people really want to take their feelings, fold them up, and get them out of the way lest they trip over them. I don't even want to get into that modern thing where people simply can't conceive of a conversation as anything other than an alphanumeric string passed between a consumer unit and a seller unit -- like they are robots exchanging data. Or possibly visitors from Star Trek's planet Vulcan.

I am not on the side of bottom-feeding or rabid discounting by any means. If you have set a price properly best stick to it. Come up with a very effective counter-argument to justify it when questioned.

Because -- whether the concept of business may sicken those reading this or not -- the subject isn't feelings it is a negotiation. Expect it. Prepare for it. Manage it. Give in during negotiation and there is blood in the water, most aren't aware of the mess they just got themselves into.

Replacing thought with price is never the answer and certainly no magical shortcut in any situation.

As with any problem, the limit is management's ingenuity. My first suggestion is to solve the perpetual shortcoming of everybody posting here: Be the brave little businessperson and raise prices.

Because pretty close to nobody is overcharging. Wetting themselves in the presence of a customer, surely. Overcharging, no. If you're already hyperventilating and ready to pass out, start with a small increase.

With money comes more options, such as a food truck. Such as a larger location. Such as a second location. Such as a loyalty program.

Plenty of businesses have VIP access tiers where you pay to cut to the front of the line. Others have peak pricing hours which smooths out the crunch and rewards advance ordering. What I want to emphasize is success grants you privileges -- a thimble full of courage unlocks them. It's time to test.

Everybody's 'growth hack' is ruinous low pricing for something everyone will insist is market traction. Selling a dollar for three quarters will become problematic quickly.

There are 195 countries on the planet. With thousands of legal jurisdictions, counties, provinces, oblasts, states and so on. Which planet are you on?

The problem isn't an AI flyer. The problem is AI will not serve the mind which won't match it. You can't edit what you don't know is wrong.

AI won't be the missing boss you fired, the millionaire you want to adopt you, the judgement substitute you desire. The big buzzkill with AI is Garbage In, Garbage Out never went away. Glass half full, nobody has to read a book on business.

If you couldn't write an ebook anyone would buy ...don't write code. If you can't get a consulting gig increasing loyalty, then do not call your app a Solution^TM

There's no reason you couldn't be successful with a loyalty app with the domain knowledge of what produces loyalty. There is every reason to conclude you will fail giving the business owner's money away while taking your cut.

This is a business forum. It's not a misguided builder forum. And this isn't 1997, based upon what you wrote there is no reason to choose you over roughly one hundred entrenched competitors and five thousand coders who happened to pick the "Loyalty Card App" slip of paper out of the fishbowl.

You can retort you don't want to compete, or business doesn't interest you -- competitors will love that. Founders are constantly posting here in shock crapping out products market-blind was a fatal mistake. Bless their hearts.

So what would you call somebody who never studied comedy, walked on stage having prepared nothing, and ...just what you would expect happened.

Most people are "How hard could this be, here ...hold my beer while I business the shit out of this." Fear, certainly. Having once head up one's ass is a close runner up.

Frankly, this is one of very few posts discussing the other two letters making up M.V.P. As you suggest, minimalism can't be crippleware.

Everyone just assumes they'll get on a feature treadmill, sure the next feature request will be the one which changes mehdiocre results. And why did they decide to build in the first place? Many have complained of the feature bloat due to this constant practice of taking any feature request, from anybody, with no justification necessary.

One must understand the prospective customer rather than using features like shotgun pellets, hoping to hit something. One must select a problem which is painful, so enough customers will pay enough money. To solve any problem well, one must conduct root-cause analysis so as to distinguish symptom from cause.

Unfortunately that can't happen if you've zeroed-out price, then take feature requests from random strangers which may or may not be the target. Because em-vee-pee devolved into a business fling, that's next to impossible to execute.

Getting back to minimalism as focus rather than limited function, when was the last time anybody removed a feature or features? That would take the kind of customer discovery founders told themselves they'd conduct after launch.

I've asked plenty about what they have discovered about customers since launch ...crickets. Larger point being you simply can't make sound feature choices when you don't understand customers or root causes.

I disagree on all points. One guy complained nobody told him crapping out products (plural) market-blind was a fatal mistake. Bless his heart.

Speeding up the process only results in builder diarrhea. You still launch crap. But of course ...hold onto the embarrassment. This is a business forum, not a misguided builder forum.

You may now retort how money was never the point, in a business forum. Because that is hilarious. The point remains: Technology Can't Be The Tail Wagging The Dog.

In the wantrepreneur era supply became the enemy of demand. It was always supposed to be supply and demand. Perhaps it would have been better written as Supply TO Demand. Y Combinator tasks founders with finding "hair on fire" problems. Founders much prefer any lame excuse to start coding ...customer be damned.

I recognize how popular shittier is better got in the internet's earliest era. Give it a rest when you are the ten-thousandth entrant in some category. The unknowing have been patting themselves on the back for shitting out a 'product' in as little as twenty-four-hours for decades now.

Buffer put up a landing page and pay tiers. Dropbox put up a video. Tesla takes preorders. Founders with an Elon Musk quote nailed to the wall ...not so inspired.

Launch first, ask questions later and first question will be where to find complete strangers you don't understand so couldn't build a product for. It's an awkward discussion.

Frankly, once you've mentioned an entrenched competitor in describing your own product, you lost the marketing phase. Better to seek out what the customer base hates about Trello with a passion to investigate potential opportunities.

This is a business forum. Not the misguided builders forum.

I think there is a huge, wholly untapped, monetization market. I don't think you have a winning formula.

The most popular SaaS tier is zero-pay. That's because founders are horrified of charging money. Just about all of them are using zero pricing to make up for non-demand.

How this changes is a mystery, wrapped in a conundrum, dipped in riddle sauce and sprinkled with question marks. But you'll never convince them to do what they refuse to simply by offering to be an intermediary.

Getting first users happens in the research phase -- before you've written a line of code. In other words, Build It And They Will Come is a bitch when you never solved for "they."

Ice-skating uphill is a problem. Launch first, ask questions later is a problem. Shooting yourself in the foot is a problem. Getting first users -- and let's be clear non-paying users -- is no problem when you understand who you build for, and what their pain-points are.

One guy complained nobody ever told him crapping out products market-blind was a fatal mistake. Bless his heart.

Nobody wants to post the music they've been shoving under doors on something that doesn't solve any problem they have.

What are you doing right now so you don't close tomorrow?