u/redchomper

Guffaw, guffaw, guffaw....

I'm pretty sure it's a different Chloe.

You replied within minutes of the video being made available on YouTube.

The pre-Q&A podcast is at https://youtu.be/lfuLzN4ab_4

Alright, this topic is a complicated but I'll take a stab and bite the bait.

First of all, the chief problem here is not that the learners are trans. It's that they are teenagers. If they have had access to gender-affirming HRT since early enough in their lives, then their voices will develop in the ordinary fashion for members of their affirmed gender. If not, then their need for and use of the techniques of trans voice will again develop over time. Sadly, many coaches won't deal with teenagers out of fear for the current political climate, yet self-taught kids who use only free resources are probably at greater risk of either misinterpreting those resources or stumbling into old, discredited practices with risk of harmful side effects. But let us assume you live in an enlightened-enough society that gender-affirming voice-coaching at a young age is no problem.

As for singing ranges, let me point out that tenor and alto are almost the same range. If you can hit C5, you can probably hit D5 with a little more practice. If you can hit D3, you can probably learn to hit C3. In both cases, you'll need to develop the coordination and maybe develop a bit of strength, but you're probably already doing that. I am aware of a few trans sopranos, but they've all devoted many years to their voice.

Within those ranges, if the learner already knows trans-voice speaking techniques, there should be an enormous amount of carry-over to get the timbral qualities they seek in the singing voice: Careful control over so-called "chest", "head", and "mix" (or whatever the cool kids are calling it these days - M1, M2, and handoff are the preferred terms in my community) are part of the equation. The rest involves mainly larynx placement and oropharyngeal posture.

I would not expect a singing teacher of ordinary caliber to also become an expert in trans-voice techniques. However, I do wish they'd let go of some preconceived misconceptions. Among these myths:

• Myth that the larynx should not move: Absolutely it can move (within limits) and quite safely! It's not generally helpful from my perspective teaching trans-voice to focus on larynx motion specifically, but part of getting the desired sound change has that as a normal side effect. So you as a singing teacher may need to adjust your expectations wherever you know that trans voices are involved.
• Myth that males have no "head" voice, or that females have no "falsetto": This notion is either simple sex discrimination or a consequence of different modal speaking habits. Assuming no major abnormalities, with the right training, either style of larynx anatomy can be made to sound essentially like the other, as far as human listeners can generally tell, with the possible exception of extreme ranges. In both cases, it's mostly a matter of finding the right balance of closure and relaxation.

If you DM me, I can get you plugged into a community that does have a strong contingent of singing trans-voices. It's almost universally adults, but there should be some useful resources and helpful people.

I have a podcast pre-Q&A interview I'll be publishing soon. With luck, we'll get the Q&A recorded too.

Yes, one of the ways people often find high vocal weight (or high closed-quotient - take your pick) is the pitch-slide Ama demonstrated. Get to a low enough pitch, and you'll find a higher CQ strictly necessary to produce that pitch.

Many people alternatively find CQ through simple mimicry. It's actually fairly common to be able to do a high-CQ voice intuitively at a familiar pitch once you hear what that sounds like, and then start dragging the pitch around later. Ama has some demos of that later in the video.

To be honest, interactivity is probably one of the keys to getting past a plateau like this. I have half a dozen other stock methods I'll use with someone if they're still having trouble, plus it's invaluable early on to have someone tell you when you're making slight progress, because early on you're so focused on trying that you don't notice when you succeed. Hearing "YES!" at the right moment can make all the difference.

(Obligatory plug: TVLS will teach you the standard way interactively. Plus, you get access to coaches during office hours.)

I see my colleague has given the party line on embouchure. In practice, girls often find that R and L tempts them to drop their larynx because they're so used to articulating them in certain ways. If you keep the embouchure on point during even these more challenging phonemes, you'll have a much easier time overall.

Oh, also, plug for TVLS!

I would encourage you to consider also the people you have only incidental contact with. For example, maybe you ask a store clerk where to find the lettuce. Does the clerk "ma'am" you? If so, you have a gender judgement, and I can speak from experience that people generally trust the voice even when the outward appearance doesn't match. Once I got a passing voice, it didn't matter that I hadn't shaven in days and outwardly looked like a disheveled dude in a trench coat: I got "ma'am" from old men in grocery stores.

IMNSHO there's no good reason to set low goals, so long as you differentiate progress with respect to time.

"Anything but masculine" does not mean "feminine". There are, sadly, some voices out there that seem to have taken the "not-masculine" idea in tragicomic directions. I won't name names, but I know at least one such person on discord. I don't say anything to her about it because (a) that would be rude, and (b) she already knows. But if I can give any advice at all, it would be PLEASE learn a proper system of voice modification. Do not simply throw spaghetti at the wall.

This is a voice training subreddit. I wouldn't come here for advice on VFS. My take is complicated, but the TLDR version is I never tell people to do it; I think in 99.999% of cases it's a skill issue, but I'll still respect you if that's your choice. Oh, and even if you get VFS, you'll still need to voice train afterwards!

Short answer is that most computerized gender detection algorithms online are useless or worse. What matters isn't what the computer thinks; it's what your speech community thinks. People are the only algorithm that counts.

In principle, it should be possible to write a program that does a good job inferring speaking gender, but I've yet to be convinced anyone has done so and made it widely available.

In theory, you can voice-train as soon as you like. In practice, what's worth practicing will depend on how far through puberty you are, as well as what you're doing with hormones. I'm assuming that you're in a place where HRT isn't available to minors, so just know that as puberty progresses, you'll adjust accordingly.

In this case, how you hold your tongue, mouth, jaw, lips, etc. to get the sounds you want. In general, how you hold whatever relevant bit of the body as you're doing a thing.

Maybe you'd prefer the word "articulation" or "enunciation"?

"Comma Gets a Cure" if you want a proper, non-accursed reading passage where you can show off the expressiveness of your voice. Any block of ten Harvard Sentences if you just need some semi-coherent words to say for a simple speaking sample. Edgar Allen Poe's The Raven if you want hard-mode on pronunciation practice. "The Chaos" if you want nightmare - no, make that legendary - mode on pronunciation practice. Guy Steele's Growing a Language if you want to have a nice approachable yet academic read. Principles of Vocal Production, by Ingo Titze, if you want to understand your voice better. Anything you want, if you just enjoy reading.

As I see it, Harvard Sentences serve a function one step earlier in the chain of habituation than a coherent passage: It moves the speaker from isolated words to coherent sentences, but each sentence stands on its own. You can reasonably have essentially identical intonation patterns for all Harvard Sentences, and the brain isn't tempted to keep context around as you read. Rainbow tries to be coherent, but fails. Comma, despite being short, simple, and silly, is a complete story: It has plot, characters, setting, and so forth. That gives the conscious brain more to chew on besides voice maintenance than do the Harvard Sentences, which is why in my cognitive loading ladder Comma Gets a Cure comes after Harvard Sentences.

PS: LilCloGlo has a nice new "Apprentice" option for those who'd rather save a bit on lessons vs. her full-price deal. Ask her about it!

Yes: Start by slowing right T.F. down and practicing careful, precise placement. Get this right in slow mode, and then, very slowly, start picking the pace up while you keep yourself overall happy with the sound. Eventually, you'll have habituated the new behaviors so that they're automatic and you can focus on spitting the hippest bars.

PS: DMs are open for business.

Rainbow is not even fit for purpose. Comma Gets a Cure is at least designed for accent analysis, and so much better. It's not that "male" and "female" are accents, but there is regional and class-based accent dimorphism, and Comma lets you compare that across cultures with dialectsarchive.com.

Sounds very good!

Word of advice: Don't worry about that "scratchiness" (vocal fry). Virtually everyone has a bit in their voice, unless they're being paid to speak like a carnival barker. But if you want it gone for personal reasons, then the answer is to keep your airflow strong until you're done phonating. That might mean some breath control work, which is a lesson in itself.

I agree with u/SweetTimbre that your vocal weight occasionally fluctuates, but to my (American) ear, that's not the quality I'd be most worried about if you keep your pitch up above about E3. To me, the vocal size is what throws my ear. For instance, at around 8 seconds "the main thing that we are working on at the moment" is surprisingly large and hollow. I also hear a subtle aspirate quality throughout. I suspect you have some habitual constrictions and/or tensions that are interfering with your larynx's proper range of motion. If we can relax those out, you'll probably find much smaller voices that feel and sound more comfortable.

This is a common point of confusion! The tension to be relieved is in muscles adjacent to those involved in raising the larynx. In point of fact the actual larynx-raising muscles get used quite regularly in daily life even by cis people: Whenever you swallow, your larynx automatically rises to its highest position, and generally with so little tension that you probably never noticed. (Please note: We don't want to engage an actual swallow because that could lead to various problems.)

A good cure for tension involves doing a few things to figure out where said tension is actually occurring, and then trying a few location-appropriate strategies. There's such a wide range of specific problems and people that stuff like this is best addressed interactively with someone experienced.

PS: You can find me in Scinguistics.

It should feel unfamiliar at first, but that is literally all. If you're sore, talk to a coach about solving that.

Ask your benefits manager for your plan disclosures and coverages. Then turn to the section about gender affirming care, and read carefully.

Now let's suppose you get the surgery. For how long are you going to be in recovery? For how long will you need to let your voice rest? How will that work out for you, with this socially-engaged job of yours that you're new at and still in a probationary period in?

Sure, look up what's covered. But maybe don't let the boss know you're planning to need a long vacation from your ordinary duties in the near term?

The voice in the sample is quintessentially male in presentation: Low pitch, large size, heavy weight, balanced articulation. You also demonstrated a classic authoritative prosody.

this probably isn’t the best representation of my candid speaking voice, i know it sounds kinda forced, because here i am trying very hard to stay low and breathe from my diaphragm

This right here is the key thing. You don't actually sound forced. You may feel forced, in which case I would encourage you to chase the sound without the strain. Various vocal relaxation activities might be in order. Also, may I suggest a slow and steady change of what's "normal"? If, each day for a month, you get a few percent closer to this target, you'll be locked in on a subconscious level.

Give it time and follow your clinician's instructions for after-care.

Many people are happy with the results. Many others find they still need to train afterwards, but just don't need to train all the same things or in quite the same way. Depending on which surgery you got, you may have changed only pitch, or pitch and other features. But even if you got a top-shelf full vocal reconstruction, there's probably still going to be some behavioral features to tweak after the swelling goes down and the tissues are fully adapted to their new configuration.