Why don’t Ron’s Dad bring muggle weapons into the fight?

This is probably been discussed on this before, but I’ve actually been really wondering this. Ron’s dad is supposed to be the non-magical expert of the group. In his study of Muggles, he would’ve definitely picked up on the Muggles love for firearms and explosives. Let’s say a real gun shot at Voldemort wouldn’t kill him because he can’t be dead because his Horcrux are still alive, but wouldn’t it completely undo all that magic that gave him his body back? In my opinion, this is a massive hole in the plot that is literally never addressed by anyone. Now that I’m thinking about it, Harry Potter and Hermione both grew up and Muggle families. They should’ve thought about this too.

63 comments · 32% upvoted · other discussions

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slanecek

There are many wrong things in this post, but one shines: Arthur Weasley isn't a Muggle expert.

lambofgun

no, but you know damn well he has some old ww2 era rifles hidden away that he paid entirely way too much for

other_usernames_gone

"deactivated" grenades he bought off a french farmer

akidomowri

Eccletricity down the fellytone?

Electrical-Meet-9938

This is probably been discussed on this before, but I’ve actually been really wondering this. Ron’s dad is supposed to be the non-magical expert of the group.

Mr Weasley isn't a Muggle expert and he doesn't know how to use Muggle weapons.

Most muggles don't know and don't want to know how to use Muggle weapons.

In his study of Muggles, he would’ve definitely picked up on the Muggles love for firearms and explosives.

??? Are you American? In the majority of the world people don't have easy access to that kind of weapons. Where I live most people don't love firearms, and I'm considered kind of weird because I would like to learn to use a gun.

Harry Potter and Hermione both grew up and Muggle families. They should’ve thought about this too.

They are from England not from Texas.

teamcoltra

I think the post says way more about OP than anything else. "He would have definately picked up the muggle love of guns and explosives" this kid lives in such a bubble he doesn't even know how abnormal it is.

CharlesBoyle799

As an American who has lived in England, their laws aren’t so strict that people don’t even know about guns. They may have more hurdles to go through, but you can still get hunting rifles and shotguns.

Hermione likely spent time watching the news growing up before her letter to hogwarts (and possible during the summers and holidays she spent at home), so she would have seen reports of the military doing military things, or the guards protecting the royal family on their drives through the city.

Harry may not have had as much TV time, but Vernon does strike me as someone who would go hunt, if anything just for the opportunity to shoot small creatures. Even in the first movie, Vernon has a shotgun that he thought he’d use to defend himself and family.

All that to say, OP was just suggesting the muggle borns and others who grew up in the muggle world would have had knowledge of firearms’ existence. Maybe a few of them did grow up going on pheasant hunts with their dads or grandpas or whoever.

[deleted]

"Hello yes I would like to buy a gun to shoot a wizard who has been haunting our world for a long time, just to support my son's best friend."

Dude didn't even know the "usage" of rubber ducks.

Forge_Le_Femme

I'm not sure how old you are, though that's been a running joke about those rubber creatures for as long as I've been alive (40 years).

So, What is the usage of rubber duck?

JSmellerM

It's a decoration and a toy for the bathtub.

Forge_Le_Femme

That went right over your head lol

JSmellerM

I couldn't be sure if you were serious or not. That's why ppl use '/s' to mark sarcasm and the likes. What if you were asking a genuine question and weren't getting any answers? That would suck.

Coffee_Fix

This isn't a plot hole, OP.

Arthur isn't an expert. He's just interested in muggle conteaptions is all.

Floppal

They lived in the UK, where was Arthur supposed to get firearms and explosives?

[deleted]

Accio SA80A1

Electrical-Meet-9938

In theory you can make a bomb with flour and other stuff.

HydroGate

I mean arthur using a gun isn't in line with his character, but he's a wizard. it would be insanely easy for him to obtain guns from the british army or police if that made sense in the story.

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Pirat

Seamus made explosives all the time ... even if he didn't mean to.

JSmellerM

But as seen in the 3rd movie they can make stuff explode with their wand. Why would they want to use muggle explosives?

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Epsilon_and_Delta

Yah but they didn’t have time to prepare for the battle of hogwarts. Harry showed up at the castle, the death eaters found out, and they only had time to put up some protective charms before the death eater army came. Plus, everyone at Hogwarts was under really heavy scrutiny by all the death eaters that had been put in charge. So it was impossible they’d be able to secure muggle weaponry, stash it, and then hide it around the grounds.

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Epsilon_and_Delta

For argument’s sake, let’s say Harry got himself a gun. How successful do you think he’d have been at actually hitting Voldy? When was Harry supposed to find the time to a) get enough ammo, b) learn to properly and safely load/unload the gun, c) spend time doing target practice?

The movies make shooting guns, especially handguns, look so easy. But it is surprisingly difficult to hit a stationary target without a lot of practice. Never mind trying to hit one that is moving. Never mind trying to hit one that has a wand and can throw a spell at you that you now have no way of blocking bc you need both hands to hold and fire the gun.

The first gun I ever shot was a Glock 9mm. I was NOT prepared for the recoil. The first two shots I took didn’t even hit the target 5 yards out. I’m more accurate with a .22 rifle without a scope at 15 yards than I am with a handgun, because there’s hardly any recoil and I still am not used to the handgun recoil. That, and target practice is expensive so the better you are, the more money you have to spend on ammunition.

You need a LOT of practice to get halfway decent at hitting a paper target that isn’t moving and it requires concentration and controlling your breath. Being successful in the middle of a battle is a whole other ballgame.

Harry could either learn to shoot a gun, or learn magic. The latter is what saved his life and the life of others time and time again. Magic trumps guns imo.

JSmellerM

On one vacation there was a shooting competition and I didn't even hit the target. I don't even know what kind of gun it was. I just know it was a lot heavier than I thought and I couldn't hold it straight. I was standing perfectly still, the target was a lot bigger than Voldemort's head or chest and I was a lot closer than Harry would ever get.

There is no way Harry would be more likely to kill Voldemort with a gun.

Epsilon_and_Delta

Yah once you’ve shot any gun even once you realize just how unrealistic the majority of shooting is in movies and tv. One handed shooting, holding shotguns at your hip, shooting with a gun in each hand, etc. basically everything you see in a good gun battle LOL

[deleted]

Tommy guns for everyone! Pass them around!

North_Church

Harry Potter and the 2nd Amendment

Not_a_cat_I_promise

Arthur has a fascination with Muggles, he's not an expert though.

Muggle weapons can be countered. Expelliarmus could easily work on a gun, a shield charm can work on a bullet, and in any case Muggle injuries don't seem to hurt wizards as much.

HydroGate

There's a lot of reasonable answers like "he didn't know much about them" or "he didn't have access to them". I think those are stretches since magic makes it pretty easy to locate and obtain guns. Its also pretty easy to get instruction about guns from sellers.

I think the most realistic answer is that JKR didn't have much of a plan for how to incorporate muggle and wizard technologies. Other than this vague "magic makes muggle stuff stop working" that gives her carte blanche to ignore muggle tech, she never knew how she would handle someone bringing a gun to a fight.

JKR is not tolkien. She didn't spend a decade creating the world of harry potter before writing the story to make sure the lore was perfect. She kind of ad libbed it and ignored aspects that she knew were going to be difficult to address.

Epsilon_and_Delta

Even Tolkien lore isn’t perfect. I’ve been listening to a podcast about the rings of power and they talk about the cimarillion (or whatever that text is called) and how there’s gaps and contradictory things in the backstory Tolkien put together.

Lostvayne12

Americans watching Harry Potter:

North_Church

Molly wouldn't approve of Arthur running around with a gun and Muggle explosives. Or God forbid, Fred and George.

Basilisk1667

… this is not a plot hole.

Snapesunusedshampoo
ciesum

Somewhat related I would have loved to hear more about Harry & Hermoine's culture shocks going from the Muggle to Wizarding world in Book 1. Like having to use a quill instead of pens, electric lights or flashlights instead of candles, etc.

Weeb_In_Peace

According to the same logic: Tom Marvolo Riddle spent the first 10 years of his life, and every summer until he was 17, in muggle orphanage. He should've learned about guns and explosives. Why isn't he using this in his quest for ultimate rule?

Epsilon_and_Delta

Even if they had guns, I think dark magic would be more than enough to divert a bullet or turn the gun into something useless. At the very least they could just use a shield charm.

I mean did you not watch the duel between Voldy and Dumby in the movie? That was some powerful magic they were conjuring. Don’t see how a gun would be a match against any death eater.

Completely_Batshit

No to just about everything here.

  1. Arthur loves muggles, but isn't remotely an expert. He can't even pronounce "electricity", and doesn't understand that a rubber duck doesn't have a function.
  2. Arthur has no firearms, and even if he did, he almost certainly wouldn't know how to use them.
  3. A bullet wouldn't kill Voldemort or even destroy his body, and thus wouldn't return him to spirit form. A sufficiently powerful explosive would probably do the trick, or a shotgun blast to the noggin, but good luck pulling that off- remember, it's fuckin' Voldemort.
  4. The series takes place in England and Scotland, where firearms and explosives are heavily regulated. It'd be more difficult than it's worth to get their hands on them when the magic they've been studying for the last seven years of their lives would be much more reliable.
North_Church
  1. Try and convince Molly Weasley to let her husband run around with guns and explosives.
Nature_man_76

My only question is why wouldn’t a gun work on Voldemort? He can’t truly die unless you destroy the horcruxes, but that doesn’t mean he is invincible. I mean wizards aren’t impervious to muggle technology. He is still human.

JSmellerM

We just don't know how powerful the shield charm is. Maybe bullets get through but maybe they just get deflected by them. And would you want to fire a gun if the bullets get deflected everywhere?

Nature_man_76

Oh, that’s why you have a precision rifle with a high-power variable optic. Take Voldemort out from half a mile away lol

JSmellerM

You still don't know if they go through or if he has a permanent shield around him. And what if he can trace the bullet back to you? There are just too many unknown variables.

Nature_man_76

I think you are pushing it here. Especially with “tracing the bullet back to me”. He isn’t a forensic pathologist or a ballistic analyst. lol. Unless you mean a non explicable answer like “magic”. lol. I’ll say it’s fair to say we don’t know if a bullet will pass through but even saying he has a permanent shield around him is wrong because there are multiple times when he needs to block or deflect spells in the books.

Paneer_Panda1

The guns might not work due to the magic in the air, and protego or a simple spell could prolly block it.

[deleted]

Electricity does not work around lots of magic, but guns are mechanical. They would work just fine.

Protego could probably still block a bullet though, if you cast it fast enough.

[deleted]

You say ‘if you cast it fast enough’ - seeing as even the slower bullets travel at over 1000 feet per second - most, well over that - I’d say it’s a case of if you’ve already cast it when they fire. If they pull the trigger before you’ve fully cast the shield and they’re within half a mile of you, you’ve got no chance.

Nature_man_76

Let me see Voldy say “protego” from a mile away when a 1.5oz of lead from a 50 BMG is flying at him at 3000FPS with 13,000 ft/lbs of energy lol. He better have a spidey sense

[deleted]

True. Wordless magic might be faster than saying the spell, but it's still entirely dependent on the reflexes of the wizard.

But maybe if you're wearing a Shield Cloak (tm) available for purchase at Weasley's Wizard Wheezes, only in Diagon Alley, then it will block a bullet as well as most minor hexes and curses.

JSmellerM

It's also not entirely absurd that Voldemort also uses such items. Not equipping your fighters with the best stuff is just dumb.

[deleted]

On the other hand, Voldemort doesn't really care about his Death Eaters safety or well-being. Aside from Snape and Bellatrix, it's unlikely that he even speaks to any of them on a regular basis.

JSmellerM

So all the more reason for them to get items to help themselves.

[deleted]

That would involve logic. And as a very smart little girl once said, "Most Wizards don't have an ounce of logic."

JSmellerM

tbf Fred and George were providing the ministry of magic with magic imbued items with the protego charm for example. So maybe they already wear something that shields them.

Narrow-Fondant-8856

Off topic, but I remember a fanfic where Harry killed Nagini with driving her over with a Tank

[deleted]

If you have good reflexes and are a skilled wizard, you may be able to deflect a bullet, slow it down, or transfigure it. or reducto the damn gun. Plus arthur didn't know the function of a rubber duck, he definitely won't know about muggle weapons.

LxckyFox

glock 17 with binary trigger
i see ur point here

AloyAlphaprime2074

It's not American, guns aren't readily available

/s

Spicyhorror98

Because it isn't as easy in the UK to buy guns, and also wtf.

CharlesBoyle799

I have often thought about this. Get a 50 cal or two, set them up in front of the bridge, enchant the ammo box with an infinite charm of whatever, and let the death eaters get through the crossfire.

Have you ever read “Harry Potter with a 1911”?

JSmellerM

While Arthur Weasley is a muggle enthusiast you wouldn't want him anywhere near muggle weaponry.

Veyron2000

People often bring up the “why don’t they use guns???” point, usually but not always Americans.  This misses out several important things: 

 1. Wizards, even Arthur Weasley, don’t know much about muggle technology. He can’t even light a fire with matches without Harry and Hermione helping. 

 2. Wizards by inclination regard muggle technology as at most a crude, inferior and faintly comical alternative to magic, certainly not something that could be used against Voldemort.   

 3. Even muggle-raised students, like Harry and Hermione, seem to “go native” pretty quickly and get used to using magic for things and assuming magic is best.  

 4. Most importantly everyone forgets that the existence of magic changes everything: it doesn’t have to play by the usual rules for our world. In particular I’m sure dark wizards have encountered guns, explosives, muggle weapons etc. at some point and developed countermeasures.

In all likelihood if you tried to shoot Voldemort with a gun the bullets would either just halt in mid air or there would be a sad “click” as his magic stops the gunpowder from going off before he apparates behind you and introduces you to Avada Kedavra.