Does Dominant 9 chord has a flat 7?
A beginner in music here, just read a Jazz book for beginner and it seems that dominant 9 has a flat 7? I thought it’d have a flat 9?
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MistakeIndividual690
Yes that’s what dominant means
Xiro4Life [OP]
Ohhh so every dominant has a flat 7th, I thought it meant having flat version of the last note. I guess that’s why every 7th chords (A7, E7, ect) are dominant and you don’t need the word dominant in it.
Sheyvan
The ONLY constant is that dominant chords have is 3 and b7. Thats what defines them as a dominant chord.
not_what_it_seems
Because those 2 notes are a tritone right?
Jongtr
Not exactly,
"Dominant" means the V degree in a scale, and also the chord on that degree - which is a major triad (in both major and harmonic minor).
But when a diatonic 7th (from the key scale) is added, that's a minor 7th (the smaller, lower 7th), so the V7 is the only chord that has a major 3rd and minor 7th. So that gets defined as a "dominant 7th type" chord.
The tritone also exists in the vii chord, the "leading tone chord". But you're right that the tritone is what produces the "dominant function" - the sense of tension resolving to the tonic. The vii chord is also said to have "dominant function" because of that.
matsnorberg
What about I7s and IV7s? They are common in blues and rock'n roll. Don't you call them dominant seventh chords?
Jongtr
Yes, that's what I mean by "dominant 7th type" - meaning just the major 3rd and minor 7th combination. In blues they don't have a dominant function.
IOW, they look like a dominant 7th chord - and of course, in isolation, the sound like a dominant 7th chord! But the tritone tension is not one that requires resolution. It's a dissonance, but not a functional one. Its 7th is like the 7th of mixolydian mode, it can just sit there as a "colour".
IOW, blues harmony (at least in its simplest form) is non-functional. You could say the V7 works like a traditional dominant (at least if it leads back to I, which it rarely does directly), while the I7 can work as a secondary dominant when leading to IV. But I7 doesn't have to lead to IV, and of course IV7 has no dominant function at all.
khornebeef
This would be a logical explanation if we did not refer to suspended chords with a minor 7th interval as "X7sus" chords. A chord within the context of an A minor key that consists of A, B, E, and G would most commonly be referred to as an A7sus2 even when there is absolutely no implication of a major third interval within the context of the piece. Our chord naming conventions are simply inconsistent and universal rules cannot be applied because there is always an exception to whatever general rule we try to apply.
MC_BennyT
A dominant 9 chord means it’s a dominant 7 plus a natural 9.
If it were a dominant b9, then it would be a dominant 7 plus a b9.
wastedmytagonporn
A natural nine? So smth between a b9 and #9 👀 (Should be major nine, in accordance to the Mixolydian scale)
Jongtr
Well, the major 9th - like the major 2nd - is simply the most common kind, so it is often called the "natural" 9th. Being the most common, it's indicated by a plain "9" in the chord symbol. As you say, when altered, it's written as either b9 or #9 - both quite common on dom7 chords, at least in jazz.
The most common set of intervals used to build chords happens to match mixolydian mode, but that's coincidence. The default intervals - assumed in chord symbol shorthand - are all major or perfect, except for the 7th, which is minor. But that's only because minor 7ths (10 half-steps) are a lot more common than major 7ths. The major scale contains five minor 7ths and only two major 7ths. Moreover, the chord most likely to have a 7th added is the V, the dominant triad, which of course has a minor 7th.
wastedmytagonporn
I do understand what happened here. I just felt it's possibly relevant to point out that using the word natural here might lead to more confusion, while also not being 100% whether my knowledge about the term was actually completely correct (esp. since I didn't learn theory in english.)
I fear ppl took me for being facetious, when I provided the possibility of having learned different theoretical languages but I was completely earnest, as that would've explained the use of the term Natural in, which in my book has a specific meaning.
I'm just glad I didn't spread miscommunication (which I first assumed upon those downvotes) and consider the overall issue my tone having come across different than intended. 🤷
MC_BennyT
Natural 9 = major 9
wastedmytagonporn
I think you might be mistaken. Like, maybe you just learned a different theoretical language than I did, but to my knowledge there is no natural nine.
There is an undefined nine, which usually is major, due to most scales using major nines. But natural simply means something else.
happysri
natural simply means something else
?
wastedmytagonporn
Natural intervals usually only refer to the perfect intervals of the fourth and fifth, as they don't have a major or minor version.
In a more technical context, it can also be used to refer to the natural note scale, opposed to the equal-temperament system our western music notation is based upon. I don't really know enough about that to go any deeper though, as I never really climbed into the microtonal rabbit hole.
Oh and ofc a natural is also the symbol that absolves a sharp or flat. So a natural 9 could refer to a 9 in accordance to it's scale (which I suppose is what OC meant here) but I just have never heard that before in use, as such, but only if reverting to a previously noted sharp or flat 9.
But this might legitimately be due to me not being native English.
CrownStarr
I think this is just a language barrier.
Natural intervals usually only refer to the perfect intervals of the fourth and fifth, as they don't have a major or minor version.
Those are just called perfect intervals, I've never heard them called natural intervals.
In a more technical context, it can also be used to refer to the natural note scale, opposed to the equal-temperament system our western music notation is based upon. I don't really know enough about that to go any deeper though, as I never really climbed into the microtonal rabbit hole.
Nor have I ever heard it in this context. The closest tuning term that comes to mind for me is "just intonation", which refers to pure intervals based on ratios instead of the approximations of equal temperament.
Oh and ofc a natural is also the symbol that absolves a sharp or flat. So a natural 9 could refer to a 9 in accordance to it's scale (which I suppose is what OC meant here) but I just have never heard that before in use, as such, but only if reverting to a previously noted sharp or flat 9.
This, however, is a pretty common informal usage of "natural" in my experience. It's on a similar logic as saying sharp 9 or flat 9, since those might not actually be written with sharps or flats, it's just our shorthand way of saying "raised" and "lowered". For example, in an F#7(b9), the b9 note is G natural, but we still call it a flat 9. In the same way, you could call G# in this case the "natural 9" to denote it being unchanged from the default, even though the specific pitch is a sharp.
SLStonedPanda
What? why are people downvoting this? He's right...
Music theory only uses "natural" in the context of fourth and fifths. Seconds, thirds, sixths and sevenths are always minor or major (or (doubly) diminished/augmented), same goes for their equivalents an octave up.
We only use "natural" when there's no major or minor version. Fourths and fifths go straight to diminished or augmented.
What he meant by "undefined" is what quality it is when we don't specify major or minor, in which case it's always major (except for the seventh, which is minor/dominant by default).
So yes, he's talking about a major ninth, not a "natural" ninth, since a "natural" ninth doesn't exist.
EDIT: Yes I did slip up. It should be "perfect" and not "natural".
_HalfCentaur_
They're being downvoted because of their attitude. It's obvious that by natural 9 they meant major 9. And while we're nitpicking terminology, 4ths and 5ths are perfect, not natural.
wastedmytagonporn
Good to know. Cuz I thought I apparently was wrong. I'm sorry I apparently came across as rude or something. I just think it's kinda important to point out errors in ppls advice? Like, to us it was obvious what was meant. To OP that might not be the case.
matsnorberg
Because this is reddit! I wouldn't care about downvotes if I were you. Most people downvote you because they don't like your yellow cloths.
Jongtr
As mentioned elsewhere, "dominant" basically means "V degree of scale", and therefore the chord on that degree. In the major and harmonic minor scales, when you add a 7th to the chord, it creates a unique type, with a "major" (bigger) 3rd and "minor" (smaller) 7th.
Chord symbol language takes the commonest intervals for granted, which include the major 3rd and minor 7th, so a dom7 chord ends up being labelled plain "7". The most common extensions are major - 9 and 13. So "9" and "13" are the symbols for those chords.
"m" is added when the 3rd is minor, and "maj" when the 7th is major.
But it;s quite common in jazz for dom7 chords to be altered, which means raising or lowering the 5th and/or 9th. So a dom7 with a minor 9th will be "7b9", and a dom7 with an augmented 9th (half-step larger than major) will be "7#9".
It can get confusing when interval names (minor, major, diminished, augmented) get mixed up with the notation symbols for "flat", "sharp" and "natural" when describing both intervals and chords!
So, in common parlance, "natural" gets used to mean "normal" or "most common" - even when they are sharp or flat notes in a diatonic scale, while "flat" gets used to describe minor intervals, even when they are "natural" notes, In "E7b9", the "b9" is F natural, not "Fb"! In "E9" the 9th is F#, which is the "natural" 9th in the scale! Meanwhile "E7#9" should technically have Fx (F##), but it will commonly be notated as G (strictly the "b10")!
So - just be aware of context and likely meaning when such terms get used colloquially. Remember the famous jazz saying "less is more" - it not only refers to a musical principle, but to how jazz musicians tend to talk in nods and winks... 😄
TroyLucas
Dominant refers to the scale degree, a chord based on the 5th of the key. Every dominant chord will thus have the same formula, a major triad plus a minor 7th.
Caster_of_spells
Nope. Dominants are all over the place in blues and Jazz for example. In Blues progressions you’ll even often have all the chords be dominant. Plus secondary dominants are a tool that’s always been around. 3 plus b7 is the correct identifier.
Frederf220
When you have a 1-3-5-7 chord you have a U1 and P5 generally and then have an option of m3/M3 and m7/M7.
These two options for two intervals gives you four total options (because 2x2=4):
- m3/m7 "minor seventh"
- M3/m7 "dominant seventh"
- m3/M7 "minor-major seventh"
- M3/M7 "major seventh"
The minor-major combination is less common thus the boring name. There are other seventh chords, for example when the 5th isn't a P5.
PolytonalBrain
I’d like to add that dominant is also used in the context of modes with a flat 7. Dominant Lydian has the Lydian sharp 4 and the flat 7 because of the dominant part.
peachcake8
Dominant meand 5th. The C chord is the 5th chord in F major and F major has a Bb
MistakeIndividual690
In this context we are talking about chord function. A chord based on the dominant (5th) in a scale and has the minor 7th has the resolving pull towards I. If it’s a major seventh you don’t inherently have that pull. So the term dominant here still implies a V-I relationship when it resolves
grumpy_vet1775
The maj/min/dom labels refer to the quality of the chord. A major 7 chord is going to have the major 3rd and major 7th. A dominant means you have a major chord with a minor 7th. Minor means you have a minor 3rd and a minor 7th.
Xiro4Life [OP]
Ohhh, thanks, I only just started learning chords with triads so I thought minor/major 3rd was the only element in a minor/major chord. Makes way more sense now.
MaggaraMarine
The 3rd is what defines something as major/minor.
Both dominant 7th and major 7th chords are major chords.
Also, both minor 7th and minor-major 7th chords are minor chords.
It's just that when you add the 7th, you need to specify the quality of the added 7th. Of course we could simply say major-major 7th, major-minor 7th, minor-major 7th, and minor-minor 7th. But I think those names sound a bit too similar, which would make them confusing (even though they are the most "accurate" names for the chords).
So, "major-major 7th" gets simplified to "major 7th", and "minor-minor 7th" gets simplified to "minor 7th". Now, since the diatonic "major-minor 7th" is built on the 5th degree (i.e. the dominant) of the major scale (and it also has a functionally very important role in tonal music), it gets its own special name "dominant 7th" (traditionally, dominant 7th chords were basically always used as V7 chords). And "minor-major 7th" (the most rare of the standard major/minor 7th chords) retains its name.
On their own, "major" and "minor" are just triads. If there is no added 7th, then those labels tell nothing about the quality of the potentially added 7th. The I, IV and V chords are all major chords. It's only when you add the 7th when the V is different from the I and IV, and that's when you call it "dominant 7th".
The same thing applies to "diminished". On its own, it's just a triad with no implied 7th. The diatonic vii 7th chord in a major key becomes "half-diminished" only when you add the (minor) 7th. Otherwise it's simply a diminished chord (or a diminished triad if you want to avoid the confusion with the diminished 7th chord - and that's also why "diminished chord" and "diminished 7th chord" are not exactly the same thing, because not all diminished chords have an implied diminished 7th).
Xiro4Life [OP]
thank you for the in-dept explaination, also I guess it's the major 7th because it's 7th note in major diatonic scale, I wonder if it's the same as natural major scale like some here has pointed out or is it too soon for me to know about this.
MaggaraMarine
I guess it's the major 7th because it's 7th note in major diatonic scale
That's not where the name comes from, though. It is true that it's the 7th degree of the major scale, but "major" here simply means "larger" (and "minor" means smaller).
Major and minor scales were in fact named after their tonic chords that were named after their thirds. The major scale/chord has a major (larger) third, and the minor scale/chord has a minor (smaller) third. The 7th degree has nothing to do with the naming of the scale. It just happens to be that the major scale also has a major (larger) 7th, and the minor scale also has a minor (smaller) 7th.
As I pointed out in my comment, minor-major 7th is also a thing. This means, the third is minor (smaller) and the 7th is major (larger). So, the quality of the 7th doesn't really have to do with the major/minor scale.
I wonder if it's the same as natural major scale like some here has pointed out or is it too soon for me to know about this.
It's simpler than that. There's just one major scale that is the major scale. "Natural major scale" isn't really a thing (and the major scale is also diatonic, but that doesn't need to be specified either, because again, there is just one major scale that is "the major scale"). Natural minor on the other hand is a thing (because there's also harmonic and melodic minor that refer to the common alterations in the minor key).
khornebeef
A good explanation for sure. I would like to say that I believe both major and minor 7 make sense as a shorthand. The reason is not because they are chords which contain two major intervals, but because they consist of two perfect fifths separated by a major or minor third respectively. This also extends to major and minor 9 chords as now it is a perfect fifth paired with a perfect fifth stacked on a perfect fifth separated by the same interval.
What we should come up with a new name for are dominant 7s, diminished 7s, and minor 7 b5s. They all have that dominant-like harmonicity due to the diminished 5th interval present in all of them. Imagine for a moment that we forget about the names for scale degrees and named these chords based on the location(s) of the diminished fifth interval. The dominant 7 could be called the "super dominant 7" since the diminished fifth appears above the perfect fifth, the minor 7 b5s could be the "sub dominant 7" since its diminished fifth appears under the perfect fifth, and the diminished 7 becomes the "dominant 7" since it consists of two diminished 5th intervals.
not_what_it_seems
The 3rd degree is the defining element. The next step in building minor chords is adding 7 and 9 for colors
StrangersPassing
Personally, I would nail down what major 7, minor 7, dominant 7, augmented 7 and diminished 7 chords are before trying to figure out extensions like 9s and 11s and 13s
dollop_of_curious
What book is this? I'm a classical/pop/ folk trad musician. I've always wanted the more extensive jazz chords to be clearly spelled out for me.
Xiro4Life [OP]
gtuzz96
Also check out Julian Bradley on YouTube if you want some very understandable videos. I’m also a classical/trad folk musician dipping my toes into jazz and I’ve found his channel to be very informative. I’m VERY much an amateur pianist and I can work through lead sheets and chord changes after just a few weeks (not very well but I’ll get there lol)
-JRMagnus
A dominant chord (often referred to as "7th" chord") has a major third and a minor 7th. The relationship between those two notes is called a "tritone" -- its the defining character of the chord.
If you see C13 -- every diatonic extension (going up in thirds) is implied after the 7th -- so in this case the 9 (D), 11 (F) and 13 (A).
Though depending on the song/instrument (im thinking guitar specifically) you can get away with omitting many of those notes.
Zarlinosuke
A dominant chord (often referred to as "7th" chord")
It's important to note though that the dominant seventh is just one type of seventh chord, even if it is the most common and default type. The chord symbol "C7" means specifically a dominant seventh chord, but if you just say "play a seventh chord" the person wouldn't be wrong to play a major seventh chord or a diminished seventh chord or something. "Seventh chords" refers to the entire group of chords that have sevenths.
gottahaveajava
"If you see C13 -- every diatonic extension (going up in thirds) is implied after the 7th -- so in this case the 9 (D), 11 (F) and 13 (A)."
Theoretically, yes. In practice, not really.
Most often…
the 13 based on the Mixolydian features 3rd, 7th & 13, and omits 9 & 11.
The 11 based on the Mixolydian dominant normally omits the 3rd and is played like a slash chord, e,g., F/G in key of C. Yes, omitting the 3rd stretches the definition a bit.
The #11 based on the Lydian Dominant (from the jazz minor) behaves like the 13, i.e., features the 3rd, 7th & #11, and omits the 9. It’s used in Tritone Substitutions and passing chords.
The 9 (including b9 & #9) is easy, no worries about who to invite to dinner! 😊
Sheyvan
...and notes like 11 are even expected to be avoided in a Dom7 because of context.
-JRMagnus
Dominant function allows for a lot of tension/dissonance. Not sure I've ever heard there being an avoid note.
Though in practise the 11 does often mean a sus chord.
Sheyvan
11 isn't sus. 4 is.
By textbook dom7 allows almost any note as a dissonant tension, EXCEPT 4 and 7, as they would veil the essential tritone between 3 and b7. You might find them somehwhere, but by default they are not used in Dominant chords.
gottahaveajava
Check 7 in your statement. 7 should be a first-class participant in the chord.
Sheyvan
I meant major 7 not b7
gottahaveajava
Make the edit, and I’ll pull my comment. Thanks!
Sheyvan
Nah. 7 is what major 7 is called as an interval. Dom7 have a b7. My comment isnt wrong. I did expand my comment though to differentiate 7 and b7
gottahaveajava
MasterZo_Gaming
Listen to the greats and very rarely will you hear a dom 13 with the natural 11
rush22
Yes.
For chord names and symbols, 7 is flattened (an interval of a minor 7th) by default.
All the other numbers are major (major intervals from the major scale) by default.
For 7ths you have to specify that the 7th is major with "Maj.".
There's some other comments about the technicalities of what does and doesn't make a chord "dominant", but usually the main reason beginners get confused is that they expect that 7ths follow the same rules.
deeppurpleking
I believe the dominant or major is referring to the 7th.
Zarlinosuke
"Dominant" refers to the entire chord quality, with major third and minor seventh most crucially. If "dominant" referred only to the seventh, there'd be no distinguishing it from a minor seventh chord.
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MaggaraMarine
While technically true (it should be called "minor 7th"), when using scale degree notation (that is also often applied to chord tones), the minor 7th degree is often called b7. (For example the natural minor scale would be 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7.)
But I do think that it's slightly confusing when referring to chord tones, because in chord symbols, the 7th is never "flat" or "sharp". It's "7" or "maj7" (or sometimes o7).
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MaggaraMarine
I don’t think scale degree notation should ever be used this way, since these interval names are simply wrong
Careful - scale degrees and intervals are not the same thing. "Minor 7th" is an interval, and it can exist between different scale degrees (not just between the tonic and the 7th degree). For example the interval from the 5th degree up to the 4th degree is also a minor 7th.
Also, when you are in C major and play a Bb, that is the "lowered 7th degree". That's just the accurate name. In C minor, since the Bb is diatonic to the key, the "lowered" would not be necessary. But since certain styles of popular music use a lot of mixture between major and minor, it's just simpler to have a single reference point for all keys.
What would you call the Ab chord in the key of C major? Pretty sure you would call it the bVI. Now, if you call the chord the "flat six chord", why wouldn't you accept calling the note Ab the "flat 6th degree"?
These degree names are not specific to popular music or jazz either. They are also used in classical music. The difference is that in classical, it's more common to relate the minor key degrees to the minor scale (so C D Eb F G Ab Bb would simply be 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 in C minor), while in popular music, it's more common to relate everything to the parallel major (so C D Eb F G Ab Bb would be 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 in both C major and minor).
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MaggaraMarine
Calling the object of discussion here, the C dominant seventh chord a “flat” seventh, would then imply that the C it self was the lowered seventh degree, which makes no sense
No, that's not what it would mean. OP said it "has a flat 7th". "C9 has a flat 7th" would make no sense if interpreted as the C being the flat 7th.
I get that you dislike calling it the flat 7th, and when it comes to chords, I agree - I think calling it a minor 7th would make more sense. But there's no reason to purposefully misunderstand it in a way that wouldn't make any sense.
Why I dislike calling it a flat 7th is because to me, that's a scale degree. And the dominant 7th chord is traditionally not built on the tonic - it's built on the 5th degree. And that's when the 7th of the chord is the 4th degree of the scale. There is no "flat 7th" in it - the 7th is diatonic to the key. It is flat in relation to the assumed major 7th, but I don't think assuming major 7th as the default in chords makes much sense. (I mean, in chord symbol notation, the default 7th is in fact minor, and you need to add "maj" to the chord symbol to make it major.)
LooseHotel7862
Ye it’s dominant
XL_78
Yes because it stands for an approximation of 4:5:6:7:9 in just intonation. To approximate 4:7, the seventh must be flat, and then in 12-TET it is still quite sharp compared to the just ratio.
As for the 9th, it is very close to the just ratio if it is one whole tone above the octave.
bassman1805
The 7 in a chord is always assumed to be a minor7 unless specified otherwise.
The Dominant Chord is based off of the 5th scale degree. So, if you're in the key of C the fifth degree is G. Build a triad from there and you have GBD, G Major. Build a 7th chord and you have GBDF, G7 (note the minor 7 scale degree F natural). Build a 9 chord, GBDFA.
In this example, the chord C9 has a Bb because that is the minor 7 interval from C. Don't get mixed up with the fact that the note name has a flat, what's important is that the scale degree is a minor 7. In a D9 chord, the 7 would be a C natural, but some might still call it a b7 because it's a half step below the C# you'd find in the D Major scale.
HouseHead78
A dominant chord in basic block voicing is root-3-5-b7
If you add the 9th, it’s just the 9th (2nd). It can be altered by a sharp or flat, but if it doesn’t explicitly say that you assume a ninth.
C-E-GA
Yeah. Normally a flat 7 is implied with every NoteNumber chord. As in D9 D11 D13 etc they all have a flat 7. Only exception would be D6.
(Just chose D because I can).
Environmental_Pea369
I prefer to think about it as "if the chord was the V chord of a major key, stack thirds diatonically". The V chord is called "the dominant", so a "dominant chord" is "a chord on the V"
So:
G9 -> C major -> G-B-D-F-A (Note how there is no flat)
C9 -> F major -> C-E-G-Bb-D (Now the 7th is flat, but it's still diatonic to the tonic key)
G#9 > C# major -> G#-B#-D#-F#-A# (note now the 7th is "sharp")
It might feel weird at first to do this "extra math", but it's actually very intuitive because it's how music works. A dominant chord is a "temporary tonicization" to the forth above.
GlitteringSalad6413
Looks like it, according to the textbook 👍
Zargholl
All these answers are driving me nuts. Dominant only means it's using notes from a scale as if it were a fifth. C dominant means you're in the scale of F, thus B is flat. That's it. But why is the 7th there at all in a 9 chord? There's no good reason other than "it's the norm, the concesus, and it sounds good." It's jazz, the notation came long after the music, as with any music. 9 could have been a 2, 13 could have been a 6, but the implied meaning of going with numbers above 7 at all means you can freely add any of the previous extensions underneath that because that's what jazz musicians did because it sounded good. It's but an implication, same as baroque or any other music of any era has a bunch of weird symbols or totally arbitrary implied notes that you're supposed to deduce from a notation that's signaling perhaps even something entirely different as it's core meaning depending on the context. If the context wasn't jazz, in C9 I'd play just an extra D note above the main chord as opposed to right next to the root note an octave lower. In jazz, it usually means there's a flat 7, because the music is made to sound good that way. That's it. 9 means 7add9. 13 is 7add9add13. 7 is flat because it's the dominant V (5th) chord of the main tonic, using notes from its scale instead of its own.
khornebeef
A much more condensed way of describing this is that the default naming convention references the Mixolydian scale and not the major scale. The reason for this is simply that we have decided that "X7" should refer to the "major minor 7" chord and that every other 7 chord requires a modifier. It would probably be much less confusing for beginners if we stopped calling major minor 7/dominant 7 chords just 7 chords.
frizzyflick
Yes.
Samuelabra
Does Bruno Mars is gay?
Unhappy-Weight-3167
It works as a dominant because of the augmented 4th between the 3rd and 7th of the chord.
DynamicOctopus420
This example is in root position with all the chord tones stacked on top of each other, so it's a diminished 5th, just in case someone comes looking for an augmented 4th and can't find it.
If you change the voicing around you could have an augmented 4th, but there's not one written on the staff in the example is all.
SandysBurner
It's a b5 in root position, E-Bb here.
Illustrious-Side-427
If you count “3, 4, 5, 6, 7,” are you going to call that a 4th?
Samuelabra
Yeah but does rocks float on lava?
gottahaveajava
Any number above 7 (9, 11, 13) in any chord implies the presence of the 7th. Otherwise, you’d see add2, sus4 & 6.
If it’s a dominant, that implies, of course, the presence of a major 3rd and a flatted 7th.
kirk2892
No, the chord you speak of is C b9 or might be notated Cdom b9.
As far as I know, all chords with a 7th have a flat 7 (minor 7) unless it is specifically notated as a maj7.
Environmental_Pea369
C(b9) is C-E-G-Bb-Ab. OP was asking about the 7, not the 9th.
> all chords with a 7th have a flat 7 (minor 7)
A minor 7th does not mean a flat. It could be a natural or a sharp, depending on the key.
kirk2892
Did you read the OP? He did ask about the 9.
"...seems that dominant 9 has a flat 7? I thought it’d have a flat 9?"
I wouldn't usually call a minor (or Dominant) 7 a flat 7, but was responding with the same terminology as the OP. We are not talking about accidentals here, but intervals.
Oh, and a C(b9) is C-E-G-Bb-Db. Ab is a minor 6 in relation to C.
Environmental_Pea369
Ahhh sorry I get what you mean. Anyway it's confusing to talk in terms of accidentals here as we have seen
kirk2892
No Worries. Lot of folks from different schools of study have different terminology and sometimes ambiguous terminology. I always strive for clarity, but it is sometimes difficult.
Here is an example, it is common in Praise and Worship music. A C2 chord is specified on the chart. No sheet music, just a chord chart. To me I am thinking they mean Csus2, C-D-G... but then find a chord diagram at the bottom, it is spelled C-E-G-D. What they should have written on the chord chart was Cadd9.
DynamicOctopus420
You could also write C7b9 to get it as a dominant 7 with minor 9th.
Agreed about the 7, it's a minor 7th above the root unless otherwise specified. There are not that many qualities to know anyway: major, minor, and diminished.
There's also augmented (which for a 7th would sound like an octave so what would be the point). You can doubly-diminish or doubly-augment also, but I feel like those would be pretty rare.
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