The Third Man
I've taken the position that the "third man" Donny Wise saw in the Sells lake house the night he took his pictures was Sells's mentor. It was the first time he threw the big heart-exploding curse - it makes total sense his mentor would be on hand to advise.
It seems to be a common belief that instead it was Gimpy Lawrence. But, not only is that entirely boring, it also makes no sense at all. Marcone told Harry that to the extent he'd been able to catch any of the people working with Sells, they'd seen only "Shadows." Sells clearly contacted them with that projection spell he used to have that first talk with Harry.
So, how likely is it that he would get one of Marcone's close allies to turn traitor, and then invite him to his house and base of manufacturing operations? That's right - it's not likely at all. No way, man - that would have been a massive security breach. It was have put Gimpy in the perfect position to go to Marcone and reveal that he'd had an opportunity to out Marcone's enemy and it had paid off - he'd reap enormous rewards from Marcone.
I think that's all we need to just completely put that idea to bed - it's simply not a risk Sells would have taken, careful as he was being.
Oh, and it would be boring - it doesn't advance the story at all. On the other hand, Harry has suspected a "sponsor" behind the folks like Sells, Denton, and Kravos, and that point has been touched on several times.
58 comments · 91% upvoted · other discussions
Maybe Cowl?
KipIngram [OP] 20 points · Nov 2025
Yes, that's absolutely what I think. I think Cowl mentored Sells, gave the wolf belts to Denton, and mentored Leonid Kravos. I don't think any of those players were really important to Cowl - I think they were pawns he used, primarily as part of a long-term program of "Harry manipulation."
I'll briefly lay out my whole theory. I think that when the White Council went to take Kemmler down in 1961, he dodged his fate by body jacking Justin Dumorne, and Dumorne's spirit died in Kemmler's body. Kemmler went on posing as Dumorne. He adopted Harry and Elaine in hopes of acquiring a Starborn wizard for his later end-game. Harry was Starborn - Elaine was not. But she could still serve as a good resource.
Eventually he sought to enthrall them, and succeeded with Elaine. But Harry slipped through his fingers. That was a problem, because if Harry came into contact with the Council he could out "Dumorne" as a bad guy. So either Harry had to die, or he had to give up the Dumorne cover. He wasn't willing to kill the only Starborn wizard he knew about, so he chose the latter. He staged the duel and threw it, creating the external impression that Dumorne had died. Then he went into hiding. Whenever he believes he will come into contact with people that would recognize Dumorne, he adopts the Cowl disguise.
But not always, and he didn't need that disguise when dealing with Sells. So that film Harry burned up would have shown him that "Dumorne" was alive and well. Ironic.
Anyway, he's still working on his long term plans, and that plan still involves Harry. So he's continuously manipulating Harry, setting him up for the role he needs him to play in the end (which I think is simple - he wants to use Outsiders as weapons, but he needs to be sure they can be "re-contained" in the end, and that calls for a Starborn wizard). Meanwhile, he's got his fingers in everyone's pies. He allied with the Red Court, and provided them with information on how to get into Archangel (which he knew by recovering his "Dumorne memories"). He used his relationship with Bianca to vector nfection into the Winter Court, and probably also was at least trying to nfect Ferrovax. He sent Elaine (still his thrall) into Summer to carry nfection to Aurora. He formed an alliance with Lord Raith of the White Court, and introduced him to He Who Walks Behind.
Harry has been causing problems for him the whole way, but Harry is too important to sacrifice, so Cowl's taking those losses and carrying on. The Gatekeeper said it well - practically Harry's every action has been "a thumb in the enemy's eye." And that's what led to his remark (to himself, mostly) at the end of "Fugitive": "Harry, sometimes you really are a pain in my ass." Note that he said "Harry" - not "Dresden." That right there is a huge bit of evidence that Cowl is someone with a close personal association with Harry, and there just aren't many wizards that qualify for that. Harry's Dumorne certainly would.
Ok, finally, I've got to include the preemptive rebuttal. Certainly if Cowl is Kemmler he would not have needed The Word or Bob in order to do the Darkhallow. But he is hiding his identity, and it would have looked suspicious for "just Cowl" to know the ritual without aid. So he faked the need for the book, and that's also why he made the remark to Harry about having "nothing but disdain for the madman Kemmler." This seems so obvious and simple to me that I feel like it shouldn't even need to be said out loud, but this is always the very first objection to the whole theory that gets thrown out, almost every time it comes up. So most of the time I try to put it to rest in advance. Of course he didn't "really" need any help, but he's pretending to be someone who would need help, and given how close the Council came to taking him out in 1961 he's being extremely careful this time. That included not revealing to Bob who he really was, most likely. I think we often overrate Bob - I don't accept it as obvious at all that Bob would "just know." Bob has enormous knowledge, but he's still subject to limitations. In fact, we don't necessarily even know Bob's real story - all we know about him comes from Harry, and all he knew came from Bob. It may or may not all be correct, and for all we know Bob is under some sort of a manipulation spell himself. So he could be Cowl's agent, and he might be aware of it or he might not be aware of it.
Miserable-Card-2004 10 points · Nov 2025
I'm with you all the way. I think Kemmler has been built up throughout the series as the big bad, and one especially who has a knack for not staying dead. But no, we're just supposed to take the Council at their word that he's dead? The Council who has repeatedly been shown to be liars or so full of hubris that what they think they know is wrong? Taking out Kemmler was easily one of their largest operations to date, do you really think they'd admit to cocking it up?
"Oh, but there were Wardens surrounding the building using their Sight! There's no way he could escape!"
Ah yes, the master necromancer Kemmler, couldn't possibly have any counters to something as remarkably simple as the Sight. I am reasonably sure that anyone capable of body-swapping is equally capable of running an illusion to cover up the fact.
KipIngram [OP] 11 points · Nov 2025
Yeah, exactly. Too much has been invested in him to not put him to use. Harry has to face him before it's over. And... bonus points... at the same time he'll be facing his childhood mentor and father figure. Cowl's the Darth Vader to Harry's Luke. I predict he will, at some appropriate time, kill Eb in a duel, while Harry watches but for some reason can't intervene. Eb is the Obi-Wan character.
As a side note, Luccio was chasing Kemmler in "A Fistful of Warlocks." What if she caught him and he turned her to his side? She bears watching. Also note that she told Harry she had family in Algeria, and Algeria is one of the places that phone Binder gave Harry in Cold Days had called. Now, it could just be that Jim needed a place and Algeria had been in the news, and he didn't even realize he'd used it twice. But... bears watching.
Heck, Cowl even hides his face and has creepy voice effects, just like Vader.
Miserable-Card-2004 4 points · Nov 2025
I don't know about him killing Eb. Seems kinda late stage, if we're using the Hero's Journey profile. That being said, everytime Ebenezer shows up, I worry he'll get Uncle Benned. Like, I thought for sure he wasn't going to survive Battlegrounds. I figured if ever there was a time to have him die tragically, it'd be when Ethniu was crushing Chicago like it was into it. But nah, he killed off Murph instead.
As for Luccio, I'm hesitant to say she's been enthralled by Kemmler. Or at the very least, that she's still enthralled by Kemmler. Don't remember which book, but it was found she and pretty much every other Warden had been whammied by someone, which led to her temporary relationship with Harry (plus the fresh hornymones in her new body probably didn't help). Mighta been end of Turn Coat? It's possible she's still being whammied, or even a willing agent. I mean, I'd absolutely target the highest levels of power when trying to corrupt an organization. Maybe Luccio was always a Kemmlerite, and she's just been deep cover for literal centuries. 🤷♂️
But I think you're right. It bookends things really nicely, Harry having to face the demons of his childhood. Maybe we'll get more info on what exactly his childhood was like. Maybe even bits Harry doesn't know about like what his parents were like, and who killed them. Ooh, maybe Kemmler killed them. Maybe he knew about Maggie's plan to have a Starborn baby, waited for it to be born, nipped her while she was weakened from giving birth to him, and then took out his dad after he had done most of the hard work of actually raising a child before swooping in, killing him, and grabbing Harry after he had been sufficiently traumatized by the foster system. That seems appropriately convoluted and messed up for Kemmler. . .
KipIngram [OP] 5 points · Nov 2025
Both the duel with Eb angle and the turning Luccio angle are just possibilities - I'm not really sticking a stake in the ground on either of those things. They're just things that "wouldn't surprise me."
Kalashtiiry 0 points · Nov 2025
The Sight has been established to be fool-proof: if something just outdoes it, I'd lose any respect to Jim.
local_blue_noob 7 points · Nov 2025
Several events in the series show a wizard's sight is far from fool-proof. The sight may let a user see magical energy and the primal nature of a thing, but what is perceived is entirely subjective and circumstantial.
For instance, the tormented spirits that Harry saw with his sight were not actually wrapped in barbed wire, nor was Murphy a Valkyrie pretending to be human. This was just how Harry's mind interpreted the emotions and magical energy when he was using the Sight at those moments.
Butcher even points out that wizard Sight is not flawless and it varies based on an individual's experiences and biases. I'll share one of Jim's post:
Miserable-Card-2004 4 points · Nov 2025
Ok, so maybe not a magical illusion, but I'll eat my hat if Kemmler didn't have an out to get around people using the Sight. I mean, it's the obvious thing the Wardens would use to ensure he's dead, and for the guy who treats death like a minor inconvenience, I refuse to believe he wouldn't have given at least a few decades of thought how to slip around it.
riveth3ad 5 points · Nov 2025
I think on the whole, this is soundly reasoned, and I agree with most of it...but I have a couple of concerns:
I don't believe someone as careful and long-term thinking as Cowl would risk a direct...intimate...contact with a shallow, blunt tool like Sells. Also, if it was Cowl/Kemmler, Helen Beckett is still breathing and occasionally vertical and could identify him (although you could make the argument that she's a thrall or willing ally too and is now a mole for Marcone...keep your enemies close kind of thing; but that could also be achieved without him being the third man in the flesh pit). Or maybe he just grew a distracting mustache.
Wouldn't it be just as easy for someone of Kemmler and/or Cowl's skills to suborn a rando just to have a strong cutout if things went south. Not to mention Dresden described the storm magic is described as risky (granted, at the point he said that, he hadn't become the mover and shaker he currently is) and it could have backfired on those involved in the ritual...although the presence of a heavyweight could be reasoned that's why the ritual didn't backfire...
But if he had a cutout, he'd gain all the benefit with significantly less risk.
...
If Kemmler is Cowl and is staging a ruse about the Darkhallow, why would he wait? I could be wrong, but I can't recall anything special about that specific Halloween night. If it wasn't a once-in-a-hundred-years-star-alignment night, he could have ascended without competition or Dresden's involvement on any number of Halloweens...even while Harry was still a kid learning to dodge baseballs and didn't represent the level of threat that he does currently. If Kemmler did that, he's got all the capital-p Power and a starborn apprentice too ignorant--Harry didn't even know about the council or the laws of magic--to worry about/meddle with his design and he can move forward more actively.
On the other hand, you could make the argument that he was waiting for Harry to be strong enough to take out his parasitic acolytes Grevane and Corpsetaker? That making a show of it brings them both on the same stage and he's rid of them because they know too much of his plans? Maybe if he killed one himself it would have tipped the other to go into defensive mode, so he uses Harry? that could work, but it doesn't hold a lot of water for me...
Last thought on this specific point...if Darkhallow Ritual can be conducted on any given Halloween and you know how to do it...why not do it at a remote nexus near Siberian labor camps? You'd be away from the attention of anyone who can stop you and would have a good chunk of the millions of ghosts who died in them to feed from.
...
I've talked at too much length about how I could see it happening, but I will be disappointed in Butcher if Elaine is Kumori. My fingers remain crossed.
...
Regardless...this is a great, thought inspiring thread, thanks.
KipIngram [OP] 5 points · Nov 2025
You make some good points, and I'm afraid I'm going to respond to them primarily by noting that Jim has to get a story told, so it's likely not going to be perfectly consistent. It does seem highly likely that Cowl would have eliminated Helen Beckitt, after the fact, for example. I guess I see these as small details that are easy enough to sweep under the rug.
Regarding the Darkhallow, I don't think Cowl really intended to finish the Darkhallow. He more or less guaranteed that Harry would "show up" when he left him alive at Murphy's - I think he wanted him to show up. In any case, if he'd completed the ritual, it would have killed Harry once he was present.
It has occurred to me that we don't really necessarily know everything about the Darkhallow. We've heard mostly about it's payoff - what if there's a downside to it too? Maybe Cowl didn't want to do it himself - maybe the whole plan was to let Harry stop him and then have Harry finish it and bear that downside. Of course Harry didn't, but Harry's still alive and operating and can still accomplish what Cowl needs him for later.
I don't think Cowl necessarily has to control Harry to get what he wants - Harry's primary purpose in the scheme is to put the Outsiders back in their box when Cowl's done using them as weapons later. He's primarily maneuvering to "power Harry up" so he'll be ready to do that when the time comes, and Harry's going to do it anyway - it doesn't have to be in response to a command from Cowl.
I don't claim to have all this perfect, and there's a ton of stuff we don't know. I think it was arranged for Harry to be drawn into the Dead Beat situation - since Mavra was the tool used to do that, it probably means Drakul was involved. I figure Cowl and Drakul are "frenemies" who collaborate to some degree but both of whom intend to backstab the other and come out on top in the end. But I figure Cowl asked Drakul to send Mavra on that errand.
Mostly I just think that there are more little things scattered around the series that support this idea than there are things that negate it, though in fairness most of those support the Cowl = Dumorne part more so than the Kemmler angle.
I definitely recognize that the whole program could be partially or totally wrong - we'll just have to wait and see.
86the45 4 points · Nov 2025
I like this theory. Another explanation for bob not recognizing him could be that evil Bob knows, that it was part of the memories Bob was told to never remember. This could be a nod to Harry burning the film. He just keeps getting in his own way
PerishInFlames 3 points · Nov 2025
Agree with all points. Perhaps the body hopping didnt start with Dumorne? Ive tried to link cowl's gps to bob and finding him so easily.
I think Kemmler is/was Etienne the enchanter. Let me explain. I dont have the reference to hand, but I think there's a woj that states the original Merlin and Etienne were friends.
Since Merlin time travelled, Im certain Etienne would have learned this from Merlin. Perhaps Etienne is "master of the future"?
Etienne created and enchanted bob's skull, so would have put a tracking spell on the skull so he would always find it. And Cowl found the skull so easily.
Do you think a wizard that was a friend of the original Merlin, would allow himself to be burned at the stake? No. I think Etienne body jumped to Kemmler.
KipIngram [OP] 2 points · Nov 2025
Yes, it would be hard to know the full history of his body hopping.
thothscull 3 points · Nov 2025
Another thing that could strengthen your theory, Bob. DuMorne took him. Now Luccio made it clear the council knew about him, the idea that DuMorne just... Took him and hid that he did so. Maybe a different wizard would know to do that and be interested, but Kemmler absolutely would know his value and want to keep him.
KipIngram [OP] 2 points · Nov 2025
Yes, definitely. I didn't go through an exhaustive list of all the stuff that supports the theory; it would take to long. This is definitely one of them.
thothscull 1 points · Nov 2025
Lol, fair. Was just a thing I thought of. The taking of Bob by DuMorne seems a bit off, and it would make sense he would want Harry to have him. Going along the rest of your theory, having an amoral way to instruct and improve what Harry could do is a good thing.
bts 2 points · Nov 2025
One explanation for the “disdain” remark could be if that not only isn’t DuMorne but also isn’t Kemmler. Say, if it’s Merlin.
KipIngram [OP] 3 points · Nov 2025
Oh, sure - this theory doesn't have to be right. I'm just noting that the remark doesn't make it impossible for him to be Kemmler.
ScarboroughFair19 2 points · Nov 2025
I have a lot of questions
\1) if Cowl needs Harry alive, why has he been perfectly fine trying to kill him (ex. the psychic attack in White Night, which Cowl had no reason to assume Harry would survive)
\2) why did Cowl never get Bob back before and why did he let Bob get taken initially? or the 2nd time? it seems like he definitely should've learned after the 1st time. if he was staging this whole duel with Harry he could've prepped for that. Or just come back and stolen Bob later. We've seen necromancers can breach Harry's wards. letting Bob or the book fall into other people's hands seems like the best way for someone else to realize Kemmler bodyswapped and survived, given he presumably taught this to Corpsetaker.
\3) wasn't he taking a massive risk assuming that the Council wouldn't just straight up execute Harry for using magic to kill Dumorne? They would have if Ebenezar didn't vouch.
\4) it doesn't make sense to me that someone going to this convoluted a length to disguise themselves would then also not wear the disguise sometimes
\5) what was his plan if a wizard ever used the Sight on him, and had used the Sight on Dumorne previously? it seems likely that someone like Morgan or Luccio could've done this.
\6) what was his plan if any of the people he sponsored/mentored killed Harry, which was pretty close to happening on several occasions. In fact, every person Cowl has partnered with has come incredibly close to killing Harry, IIRC.
\7) wouldn't Lasciel have realized who he is? I don't understand why she would have never mentioned this, offering to tell Harry something about Cowl/Dumorne would've been a surefire way to reel him in more
\8) how is he transmitting Nfection without also being Nfected if he isn't starborn? or is the idea that he is Nfected?
\9) if all the stuff from the earlier books was to train Harry, then Harry hasn't really been messing anything up for Cowl/Kemmler, has he? so how is Harry a pain in the ass for him? like I'm confused why he's trying to train Harry by sending all these people into his city to murder him and then is pissed that Harry is not dying when he needs Harry to survive, when he could've just shown up at the end of book 1, enthralled Harry, and been done with it.
\10) if Kemmler needed a foolproof disguise, why would he not just bodyswap into Elaine instead?
\11) I feel like the Corpsetaker would've been able to clock him.
\12) Bob can't be Cowl's agent because Bob tanked the darkhallow in dead beat. I don't understand why Cowl would turn down the Darkhallow in this scenario.
if his underlying motivation here is to use the Outsiders as weapons, then it seems like enthralling Harry should be his absolute top priority, because literally nobody else is going to enable him to be able to do that, and Harry will never willingly work with him. So it just seems very odd to me that he's spending a lot of his time training absolute nobodies in sex cults and giving FBI agents cursed items, all of which are massively running the risk of Council detection or killing Harry, which he's trying to avoid, but not actually trying to contact Harry again, persuade him, enthrall, etc.
continuing off that, if he needed to stage a duel with Harry, couldn't he have just overpowered Harry and then enthralled Harry when Harry was exhausted? It couldn't be that hard to magically stonewall a 16 year old if he's Kemmler.
I'm not trying to gish gallop with a million arguments here, I don't expect you to reply, but I really don't see how Butcher explains all of this in a satisfying way
KipIngram [OP] 2 points · Nov 2025
No, that's all fair. I do think Cowl makes an effort to "make it look good." But if Bob is indeed a source of information for him, he may know a lot about Little Chicago. I'm not saying that there's not doubt here, but I think it's within reach for Jim to play it along these lines. He's got the "big story," and he's got the individual little stories. He wants those small stories to carry appropriate drama levels too. If he made Cowl's attacks on Harry "clearly restrained," it would be suspicious. I don't blame you for being concerned about this, but I don't regard it as ruling out the possibility of the theory.
Also, he doesn't really need Harry to be working for him - he just needs Harry to be positioned, with appropriate abilities, to deal with the Outsiders when the time comes. Harry's going to do that regardless - it doesn't have to be "on Cowl's behalf." Sure, he would have liked to have had Harry under his explicit control, but that didn't work out for him.
local_blue_noob 2 points · Nov 2025
In the audiobooks, James Marsters voices Kemmler (A Fistful of Warlocks) and Dumorne (Ghost Story) with the same distinct German accent. Even though it's just an audiobook detail, that seems like a massive clue.
Important to note that Cowl does not have the same accent.
KipIngram [OP] 3 points · Nov 2025
Interesting. Could just be an accident. Kemmler seems like a Germanic name, but Dumorne seems French, so it would seem natural for them to be different. It might also be a tip-off from Jim, in which case... nifty.
Cowl's voice is spell-disguised, so there's no knowing what the details of that are. In fact, changing my accent would be part of what I tried to do if I tried to use magic to hide my identity. I'd worry more if it did match.
local_blue_noob 2 points · Nov 2025
You make a good point. I forgot about the voice disguise that Cowl and Kumori where using.
KipIngram [OP] 3 points · Nov 2025
I think that it's almost certain that both Cowl and Kumori are people that Harry would immediately recognize (by sight or voice) were it not for their disguise spells. That's supported by the fact that Jim's told us Harry will be "hurt" when he learns who Kumori is, and also by the fact that Cowl referenced Harry by first name in "Fugitive."
local_blue_noob 2 points · Nov 2025
You're definitely on to something. There is that moment where Cowl and Kumori seem to panic when Harry says he recognizes them.
I don't think Cowl is Kemmler, but someone "Kemmler-adjacent." I can't quite put my finger on why... I've been flirting with the idea that Cowl is another wizard we've seen use black magic when necessary. The below exchange, the madman Kemmler comment, and the "Dorosh" spell make me lean towards the other wizard.
Schubert is more notable, but Goethe is the origin of Erlking. It feels like a hint, but I can't figure out what it means. Maybe I'm just overthinking it.
dhds83 1 points · Nov 2025
One of Goethe's most famous works is his two-part play about Faust, which for anyone who does not know is about a formerly righteous man who pursues infinite magical knowledge and signs a deal with the devil. You may have heard the term "Faustian bargain." I suspect this is the reason for the Goethe reference and gives us a big hint about Cowl's past.
dhds83 1 points · Nov 2025
I've never considered the Goethe-Erlking connection before, so I'll have to keep that in mind during my current reread. I think it's less likely than Goethe's Faust, but it's certainly worth paying attention to!
agd25 1 points · Nov 2025
Kemmler could have been trying to get the word so the others couldn't get it and perform the Darkhallow themselves. He wanted to be the one to do it. Letting one of the others ascend would be far worse than failing from his POV.
KipIngram [OP] 1 points · Nov 2025
Certainly - absolutely. The point of the earlier statement, though, was to demonstrate that him apparently looking for it doesn't prove he's not Kemmler. I'm not necessarily saying he wasn't actually trying to acquire it, and in fact somewhere in the last day or so I've actually stated that he certainly didn't want any of the disciples performing the ritual.
Harold_v3 1 points · Nov 2025
One speculation to add is how both morgan and rudolf are so against Harry. We know that Rudolf had a mental wammy put on him (it was discussed explicitly in changes) and Morgan never found Harry possibly because Morgan had a mental wammy put on him to hide Harry from Morgan. (It’s easier to blind just the huy searching for harry than the whole of the council) Why bring this up? Well maybe Harry has a wammy put on him to hide cowl/kimmler/justin from Harry so Justin/Cowl/Kimmler seems dead. It’s why Harry doesn’t recognize and/or barley notices cowl during the early books like in stormfront or grave peril when Lea gets the Anthem because cowl had explicitly hid himself from harry. That wammy on Harry is part of Harry’s internal strife with his subconscious.
KipIngram [OP] 2 points · Nov 2025
I don't think that the discussion in Changes necessarily went so far as declaring a mental whammy - I think it also encompassed the possibility of him simply being corrupt and taking money for loyalty to "bad players." The discussion of his better than expected home and so on played into that.
That said, I do think he's been hit with a mental whammy, as far back as Grave Peril or slightly after. I think Jim's deliberately shown his behavior becoming more and more erratic and unhinged as the series has evolved, which is exactly how Harry says someone under a whammy would behave. I pretty much have that locked into my head canon, and I presume Harry will ultimately have to help him after he figures it all out.
Harry does notice the likely existence of someone like I propose Cowl to be quite early on. He mentions several times that twits like Sells and Kravos don't figure everything out on their own, and the FBI crew had to get those belts from somewhere (Harry even saw it happening in his soul gaze with Denton). He really has no reason to suspect Kemmler is still alive, and he believes he watched Dumorne burn, so it's easy to see how he could overlook that possibility. Also, Elaine seems unenthralled, which supports the notion that Dumorne is dead. But I think she's a fine thrall, and isn't even aware that she's "called up for service" from time to time (like to be Kumori). She thought it was her idea to take sanctuary in Summer, but I propose that was imposed on her by Cowl - she was used to vector nfection to Aurora.
You're leaning into the whammy thing a bit more than I'm comfortable with - the only one you listed that I feel is likely is Rudolph's. It's certainly possible that a spell was used to hide Harry in the orphanage / foster care system, but that's not quite the same thing as a whammy. I definitely don't think Harry's under a whammy. Bob may be, though. All we know about Bob Harry has told us, and all Harry knows Bob has told him, so there is just no guarantee that it's all precisely correct. It's probably largely correct, but there could be critical misinformation woven into. Since I think the duel was staged, it must be the case that Dumorne wanted him to take Bob - otherwise he'd have secured him. I suspect Bob may be a mole, but I'm entirely uncertain as to whether he's a willing mole or completely unaware of it. I hope the latter, but I do think Harry's going to suffer a major personal betrayal before this is all over, and Bob is certainly a candidate. A good one, actually.
Considered_Dissent 1 points · Nov 2025
In regards to your "rebuttal" section there is another way to interpret it that doesn't require the lies and misdirection escape route.
My personal theory is that Cowl is effectively the Kemmler we know from the official White Council history; however, one iteration is/was N-fected and the other wasn't/isn't and so they end up having conflicting motivations and actions and great antipathy (and maybe a slightly hazy memory [or its a Mirror Mirror situation], though I guess that's also getting my theory into convenient hand-waving territory).
KipIngram [OP] 2 points · Nov 2025
Well, that's a very interesting idea. It gets right into the operation of Nemesis - does it affect the body or the spirit? And it does actually open the possibility of a character "changing" when they change bodies.
I hadn't really considered the possibility of Cowl (whoever he is) having a history of nfection - it's a compelling point. Opens up quite a lot of story-telling latitude for Jim, doesn't it?
HurryPatient8581 1 points · Nov 2025
Awesome 👏
[deleted] 1 points · Nov 2025
"Harry was Starborn - Elaine was not." Do we know this for sure? Elaine was the same age as Harry when they where adopted.
KipIngram [OP] 2 points · Nov 2025
No - I was speaking "within my theory there." But - I think that we do know it's unlikely that she is. What we've been told is that Harry and Elaine know that there birthdays are "within a month or so of one another." Maybe a month, maybe a day - they just don't know for sure.
Eb told Harry that the Starborn window is just a few hours wide. So if we have a month-wide birthday window and a few hours wide Starborn window, and we know Harry is Starborn, then we know that the probability of Elaine being Starborn is quite low. There are 720 hours in a month. Say we allow six for the Starborn window. That gives us a probability of under 1% - 1 chance in 120 or so.
Within my theory, I think the reason Harry wasn't killed at that convenience store as a kid is because he was the only Starborn wizard Dumorne knew of. And I think that status has saved him several more times since then. If Elaine was Starborn, and was successfully enthralled, then Dumorne could have just had He Who Walks Behind kill Harry.
DysPhoria_1_0 1 points · Nov 2025
I have two problems with this theory. First of all, why would Kemmler/Dumorne/Cowl not just Corpsetaker yoink Harry's body upon staging the duel? We know through WoJ that Drakul is something powerful shoved into the body of a starborn, so it is possible to insert yourself into a starborn vessel. Let's assume that Cowl is Dumorne at the point of Harry escaping the mind-whammy, and now has to figure something out in order to fix his fuck-up. Harry is 16, which is to say that he has a functional enough body to work with, and he clearly is no slouch when it comes to raw magical talent. If I'm Kemmler, I'm not going to even bother trying to manipulate Harry into doing the starborn thing. I am simply going to take his body, take his magical talent and starborn-ness, and do it myself.
My second problem is, if we assume that Kemmler did yoink Dumorne's body in 1961, why not just pop the Darkhallow then? Nobody would have known that he was still around, which gives him every excuse to head to Demonreach under the guise of Dumorne (Kemmler was the Warden before Harry, he could 100% have done this) and become whatever creature the Darkhallow would make him. At that point the Outsiders would barely be necessary for his plan, and if they were, finding Harry and abducting him would have been easy as a creature of that type of power (after all, Mab and One-Eye show that hiding ludicrous amounts of power is pretty easy).
Kalashtiiry -1 points · Nov 2025
Unless Jim lied (yeah, yeah, naw) when he said that Justin is, at least, as dead as Kemmler, the logic grid doesn't support the bodyhop theory.
KipIngram [OP] 3 points · Nov 2025
The real Justin is dead. He died in Kemmler's body in 1961. That's good enough to let Jim claim he didn't lie. Meanwhile, Kemmler's body is dead. Yes, I know that's flip-flopping which side "matters," but I wouldn't put it past Jim at all.
And yes - Jim has told us he'll lie. So if that statement was truthful, then he'll lie. If it wasn't truthful, then it was a lie, and... he lied. Claiming Jim will always be perfectly honest with us is logically flawed. I won't argue about it - I've heard it come out of his mouth myself. And no - I don't have a link. I once spent hours searching it up for someone who wasn't willing to believe it, and I don't plan to do that again. I don't really care if it's generally believed or not.
Note that a) I don't think this means he lies to us willy nilly. I think it's something he would reserve for "major things" (like a late in the series revelation of Cowl's identity). And, b) I don't regard this as "tagging Jim an immoral liar." I think any author worth his salt better be willing to be a little dishonest if it's required to guard against his story being spoiled. Jim just had the willingness to say it out loud. I don't have any problem with it at all - doesn't make him a bad guy.
Kalashtiiry -1 points · Nov 2025
My counterpoint to him lying is mostly that if it's accepted that WoJ is worthless, then we can drop it and no one, Jim included, wants that. So, for the sake of the argument, at least, WoJ should be considered as truthful as Truthful Jim at the time would've been.
To me, I imagine that he'd said it as a fallback for any changes of mind he might've decide to go through between an offhand WoJ and an actual book being written.
As for Kemmler...
If one would be able to compare two states, they're gotta be comparable and not flip-flopped like that.
KipIngram [OP] 2 points · Nov 2025
Worthless would mean he lied all the time. I definitely don't think that's the case - in fact, he may not have ever lied yet, even if my theory is correct, because he can hide behind the dodge that the true Justin Dumorne died in 1961.
I think outright misinforming us would be something he held for extremely rare use under exceptional circumstances. Granted, that does mean we "can never be sure" about a particular bit of WoJ, but in fact I figure we're probably pretty good at assessing when an item might bear on something of deep significance. I don't think it's fair to say "worthless."
That said, I do in fact ascribe a definitively lower level of "canon significance" to the WoJ material compared to the published words. For example, evidently there's a WoJ (which I haven't personally heard / seen) that Kemmler was once warden of Demonreach. Ok, that's fine, but I don't "count it" and won't until it's stated in the published text. For me, the printed/published words are the Dresdenverse.
I tend to agree with you about the flip-flop thing, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Jim hide right behind it with a big grin on his face. But see, I'm not trying to set aside the idea that he'll fib to us - I'm fine with the idea that he will, and I think any author should rather than let their later big climax get spoiled. It strikes me as almost a duty.
borticus 1 points · Nov 2025
I've always believed and-or assumed it was Cowl. We all had a scant opportunity to have a picture of the guy but that went up in flames.