Sword Art Online: Alicization - Episode 10 Discussion (Anime Only)

Episode 10: Taboo Index

禁忌目録


THIS IS AN ANIME-ONLY THREAD. LIGHT NOVEL READERS SHOULD DISCUSS HERE.

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Knowledge of the main series anime up to and including Ordinal Scale is assumed in this thread. Spoilers for SAO, SAO II, and Ordinal Scale can be untagged.


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Previous Discussions

Episode 9 - Nobleman's Responsibilities

Episode 8 - Swordsman's Pride

Episode 7 - Swordcraft Academy

Episode 6 - Project Alicization

Episode 5 - Ocean Turtle

Episode 4 - Departure

Episode 3 - The End Mountains

Episode 2 - The Demon Tree

Episode 1 - Underworld

Sword Art Online: Alicization - Episode 10 Discussion (Anime Only)

338 comments · 99% upvoted · other discussions

comments

[deleted]

Holy shit, when I saw the disclaimer at the start I knew some shit was going to go down, but I was not expecting that!

Eugeo breaking the taboo index was incredible, it was so clear how much he had to be pushed to the limit, watching someone he cared deeply about being treated like that and it still took so much of his effort and pain of his fucking eyeball exploding to swing his sword, the animation and voice acting was perfect, there was so much visceral strength in that moment.

Kirito coming back just in time was great, he’s always strongest when he’s protecting somebody, and that was so clear, I love the way that the sword fighting is animated this season, and the OST is perfect every time, the sheer power that’s translated through the screen is amazing.

I would say that those noble pricks got what was coming to them, but I mean, that was a gruesome way to go, it’s sickening that if it had been anyone but Eugeo and Kirito then they would have gotten away with it, but, like, holy fuck. Also interesting to note that the blonde one broke the taboo index, after seeing how far Eugeo had to be pushed for the same effect he must have been in some serious pain.

I loved how Kirito calmed Eugeo and treated him exactly like a human, and even telling him as such, that was a really nice moment between the two of them

The teacher seemingly praising Eugeo for breaking the taboo index was a curious moment, and she seemed to notice that Kirito was different, I wonder if she’s been altered by the real world people to spot things like that and to notify them, since they are looking for Alice type AIs

And speaking of Alice type AIs…. ALICE!!!!!!!! I was expecting a much longer quest before Eugeo, Kirito and Alice were reunited, so I’m interested to see where this goes from now, also, I wonder if Alice will recognise Kirito? It would make some kind of sense for Eugeo’s memories to be altered after Alice was taken and Kirito logged out, but I would have thought that they’d want to keep Alice as the same Alice that broke the taboo index, so, she might recognise both Eugeo and Kirito.

But also, Alice synthesis 30?

Great episode, can’t wait until next week

NAPOLEON039

The way Alice looked at them both, it seems her memories are erased. But Eugeo seemed to recognize her just fine.

[deleted]

True, it did seem that way, maybe she didn't recognise them at first, it's been a long time since they saw each other after all!

It would be really heartbreaking for Eugeo if she'd forgotten about him, especially since finding her is the reason he set himself down the path of becoming a swordsman

fl3rian

But also, Alice synthesis 30?

Maybe a clone/duplicate using the sacred arts?

And I wonder if Kirito recognizes her.

[deleted]

A clone would be the simplest explanation of the name

I doubt Kirito would recognise her, he didn't recognise Eugeo

[deleted]

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[deleted]

It might depend on the translation since I'm only working off English subtitles, but synthesis is like creation, so if you read it as "Alice creation 30" then it sounds a lot like a reproduced clone

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fl3rian

iirc he felt somewhat familiar with Eugeo. So maybe seeing Alice will trigger some memories?

BleedingUranium

That's already been happening, even just hearing the name "Alice" in the real world, back in Ep1.

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Firnin

if you recall, the knight that took alice away in the first episode introduced himself as "Deusolbert Synthesis Seven", so there's a pattern there

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Smokemantra

Also interesting to note that the blonde one broke the taboo index

Raios didn't break it, in fact he was incapable of doing so. In his last moments he wanted to take Humbert's arm string so Raios would live, but then Humbert would die and it would be Raios' fault, which goes against the index, so his fluctlight fried itself because of the loop it generated: break the taboo index to live or follow the rules and die. Also, his cause of death was his fluctlight losing stability and tearing itself apart and not his wounds or the blood loss.

The teacher

Azurika is a very interesting character but I've rarely seen people talking about her (or other characters that don't have that much focus and I find interesting). As we know, she's represented the Norlangarth empire in the unity tournament, which means she's really strong and smart. What's interesting is how perceptive she is, enough to figure out Kirito was not a regular person (sadly their interactions were not all adapted into the anime). She also knows about the seal but says she didn't break it (she's actually not the only one to ever say this, but I won't spoil), which is intriguing too. I can tell you this much though, it's not like she was altered by Rath, they didn't alter anyone actually, their way to check for Alice-like fluctlights is different.

​

ZeHaffen

the blonde one broke the taboo index

He actually didn't break the Taboo Index, which is what caused his little meltdown. He was given a paradox: either take Humbert's rope to save himself, a violation of the Taboo Index because it would cause Humbert's life to decrease, or let himself, a third-rank noble who cared about himself more than anything else, die. He couldn't make a decision between his life and the Taboo Index, thus causing him to "short-circuit" and die.

BleedingUranium

But also, Alice synthesis 30?

You may remember that the Integrity Knight who took away Alice Zuberg was Deusolbert Synthesis Seven.

Vindicare605

So here's my question.

Would Kirito have acted how he did if he had not known that he was in a virtual world and that who he was striking wasn't actually alive?

We saw already how much the Laughing Coffin incident tore him up and here he is making the same call again only this time he can be sure that who he his attacking isn't actually a real person.

That's what I'm wondering right now.

[deleted]

Here he chopped off the arms to make sure that everyone was as safe as possible, he didn't intend to kill in the way he did in the laughing coffin incident

Kirito has always fought to protect his friends first, and himself second, so I think he would fight like this even in the real world, chopping off his opponents arms was the safest, quickest way to make sure that he wasn't a threat anymore. The only thing I think Kirito might change in the future is to be quicker getting the tourniquet

BleedingUranium

The only thing I think Kirito might change in the future is to be quicker getting the tourniquet

To be honest, that was entirely in character. It might bother him later, like the LC members he killed did (or potentially less, through handling that and with maturity), but in the moment? Raios was scum that deserved what he got; Kirito wasn't trying to outright kill him, but he didn't have to be enthusiastic about saving him after.

Also, given Humbert didn't die, it's a safe assumption that had Kirito managed to tie off his wounds, Raios would have been fine too, even with Kirito taking his time.

[deleted]

Yeah, I mean it's quite clear from the viewers perspective, and I don't think Eugeo, Tiesse, or Ronnie would think of Kirito as a killer or murderer after Raios died, but Kirito holds himself to a high standard

Vindicare605

Yet I know all that and still I wonder what the Kirito that was plugged into the Underworld without his memories of the real world would have done.

Seeing how hard it was for Eugeo to break the Taboo Index and Kirito felt the same way about as he did in the first episode, but this Kirito is different because of his difference of perspective. Remember that Eugeo needed Kirito's influence to break free of his programming, influence that may not have come from the underworld only Kirito.

Obviously Kirito views AIs differently, that's been obvious since Episode 4 of Season 1 (field boss and NPCs) but yet he acted with such unflinching conviction in this episode that makes me think he was acting with a different perspective than he was when he was in Aincrad.

Not necessarily the protecting Eugeo part, Kirito would have always done that, but he would have also tried to disarm his opponent without actually striking him too which is what he did in Aincrad the first time he encountered Laughing Coffin or when he encountered Titan's Hand.

The evolution of his character I guess, the added conviction I'm wondering, is that a new part of who Kirito is or is that a product of his knowledge of where he is. I'm not sure.

ZeHaffen

The difference here is that Kirito did destroy Raios' sword first, Raios simply continued to fight. Kirito also had zero intent to kill; Raios' death was the result of a paradoxical choice between his own life and adherence to the Taboo Index causing him to "malfunction."

[deleted]

I think the conviction comes from wanting to protect the people close to him, in the examples you listed he was either at a huge advantage, Titans Hand couldn't deal enough damage between them to meaningfully hurt him, or in the case of Laughing Coffin he got lucky, Laughing Coffin were warded off with a threat, something that definitely wouldn't have worked here.

Kirito got really rapid character development in Aincrad and the unflinching conviction to protect others comes from watching his guild being killed in front of him, in Alfheim he tells Suguha "I won't let a party member die, not while I'm alive, I won't let that happen again", and that's really been the guiding force in how Kirito fights, Gleam Eyes, Kayaba (75th floor), and Death Gun come to mind as the best examples.

Since then, and I don't really have anything to back this up, but I think that Kirito's character development has focused much more on bringing his virtual self and real life self closer together, which is why I say that he would have acted exactly the same way if a situation similar to this had happened irl.

As for putting Kirito into the Underworld with no memories, I'm not really sure what you mean, other than his fast reaction time there isn't really anything physical that sets Kirito apart from anyone else, and character is built from life experiences, so without his past experiences he'd be a completely different person.

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Virato913

To Kirito AI is as much of a person as he is. Asuna knows that, and shares that philosophy, which is why she mentioned to Kikuoka that if Kirito had known they were trying to create AI to fight wars he wouldn't have accepted.

niytfox

Well, Kirito knew that who he struck was actually alive and an actual human, that's the whole point of this arc. Everyone in Underworld, including the goblins he fought in the cave, have real human souls. He fought because it was the right thing to do to protect his friend from a dick. Also, Kirito didn't mean to kill him, he went to give him the ribbon to bind his arms but his Fluctlight collapsed first and he went insane.

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eliar99

in episode 5, the real world people mentioned that alice was taken by the axiom church and her memories were altered/program was corrected. so i doubt she will remember them at all, at least, on a conscious level. someone has been speaking to kirito in spirit though. Someone in teh axiom church must have a sense of humor to send alice for them.

gsimenas

I would have thought that they’d want to keep Alice as the same Alice that broke the taboo index

For the record, the Axiom Church got to her before Kikuoka and Higa could even notice due to the whole time acceleration thing. The fact that Alice was already arrested is why the project wasn't stopped by now.

[deleted]

The way I interpreted that was Kikuoka and Higa would have to change some of the rules of the underworld to release her from prison, which could have unforeseen effects which ruin the project, that doesn't mean that they can't run tests and alter Alice's AI in prison though

After all, Kikuoka and Higa do have full access and control of the world, as far as we know

gsimenas

They don't really know what exactly was done to her. As far as they know, the Axiom Church modified her somehow to "fix" her.

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IntegrityKnight

I am at a lost for words. I was shaking through the entire episode.

[deleted]

wait a minute, your username

​

fuc-

IntegrityKnight

I know I know but it is a cool name! (not to mention it wasn’t taken) so I went with it. Don’t worry I am not a bad person who is gonna take away your friends!

[deleted]

STAY AWAY FROM MY FRIENDS

IntegrityKnight

(⌐■_■)

Jcowwell

Swiggity Swoogity he’s coming for that booty

MrShyShyGuy

I know exactly how that feel. Even as a LN reader going through this part again still leaves me speechless and hurts my heart...a lot. A-1 definitely nailed this episode LAB!

MatrixHolder101

Shaking from being disturbed or shaking with energy? Or both?

IntegrityKnight

Both really, I mean I knew what was coming and I was excited for it but I never imagined it would be shown like this

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CommanderQball

You know shit’s about to go down when there’s a rape warning before the episode.

Albuuuu

Fuck i was having lunch

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[deleted]

Estova
StornZ

Wait so there was more than just the wine and shit?

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DontMessWithGlitch

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EpiXtreme

Eugeo: Stay cool. Also Eugeo: NOPE.

fl3rian

After the disclaimer I paused and double checked if I didn't click on Goblin Slayer by accident...

C4llMeSteve

Holy cow,then I wasn't alone :D :D :D

kenshin2929

Me too, man hahah

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Kryptonaut

chop longing boast expansion voracious paltry advise angle arrest march

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bomb2chest

Crunchyrolls version was censored also compared to the TV broadcast. Here is a link showing side by side some of the alternate scenes. NSFW https://twitter.com/TZEENO/status/1071480682571030528 Credit to Mitrospeed for posting it on r/anime.

Clarynaa

I felt like the Japanese one was way way more impactful. I can see how that would be really triggering for some of us and would be toned down, however the straight up black screen that showed up at one point really really threw me off.

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[deleted]

"Alice Synthesis Thirty"

You just couldn't give us a happy ending could you? Damn this was brutal. The molest scene was a bit disturbing but thank God the dignity of the girls was kept intact. Also, Eugeo, I love you my boy, you are legit badass, kind and beautiful. And Kirito-kun, you don't even need any words.

[deleted]

Anyone wanna explain to me why, during the part where the face thing shows up on the ceiling, Kirito tells Eugeo not to let their pages hear what it says? I didn't really understand that.

Also they did a pretty crap job of covering their ears after that TBH lol.

zechroa

I think Kirito thought it best not to let the artificial fluctlights other than Eugeo see system-related processes happening, as it would to some extent break their understanding of their reality, or perhaps just be more frightening to them after so much has already happened. It's okay for Eugeo to see because he's already broken the Taboo Index and is going to be exposed this stuff anyway.

Ubway

I will try to summarize as much as I can.

What a sensational episode. With so many comments I heard at that time about "rape," I believed the episode would raise a lot of controversy in the fanbase. However, I can not imagine how an episode that proposes such a large amount of reflections and philosophies can raise controversy.

Starting with the taboos, SAO made such a masterful re-use of philosophy that Kirito proposed in the previous episode and the way it influences Eugeo. It did not explain all the mysteries yet, after all we are only in episode 10, but the plot is in a way so well done and harmonious with the plot twist of episode 06 that I could not ask for more. Kikuoka had proposed the idea of ​​Kirito being inserted into the project in order to influence the Artificial Fluctlights to be able to transgress the code of taboos and ethical principles, that is, to be able to kill, to put the emotions in the foreground, to the detriment of laws.

Eugeo is the reproduction of that goal. To the most attentive to the plot, it is very clear that he is too close, in this episode, to become an A.L.I.C.E. And the psychological game, the expressions, the vocal performance, and the OST were so flawless to illustrate his psychological that the dialogues were not necessary for us to understand.

What about the villains? Although they are disgusting and detestable as we all think, they have a much deeper purpose in the work than just "rape." In addition to demonstrating how arrogance and negative feelings influence attributes, they are also clearly a social critique of power abuse situations. The anime not only presents its elements chained and with goals, but also does not fail to pass emotion to the public in no time.

And speaking of "rape," what a shocking scene. Not only because of the emotion and anger that came to viewers, but also because of the way in which he is able to collide. It was not a concrete rape, which avoids the polemics similar to Goblin Slayer, and, moreover, is very well placed with the philosophy of Kirito that I mentioned (influences Eugeo).

The humanity of Eugeo, which I have been praising since the beginning of Alicization, appears again here. The way he feels guilty, what he sees as dross after breaking the Index, which compares to the Goblins. What a superb exploration of psychological. Excellent character.

The only caveat would be that they did not explain why they entered the tower at the end of the episode (although it is probably because those who break the Index are taken there, as Alice did). However, as the direction was impeccable, I'd rather trust that it will be said better in the next few episodes. Note 10, without a doubt.

[deleted]

[deleted]

Ubway

Thank you very much for the explanation ^^

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Engbjerg

Kirito would likely consider it murder. But he only cut off his arms, he deliberatly tried not killing him and he was on his way to put a tourniquet on him when he just randomly exploded.

[deleted]

It will be interesting to know what Kirito think's he's killed, does he know that it's an AI? Is the AI close enough to real life that he sees it as a person anyway? Does he think he's killed an actual person?

The first thing he asks himself is "did something happen to the fluctlight?", I think that there's a good chance that Kirito now believes himself to be in a life and death world similar to Aincrad.

As for whether he thinks it's murder or not, I think he probably would, he thought the same about the Laughing Coffin ambush in SAO, that if he'd been a bit more careful he could have killed less and sent more to prison, even though that was a situation where he was defending himself and his friends, similar to what happened here. If anything he might be harder on himself for not learning from his past experience.

BleedingUranium

Kirito absolutely considers artificial fluctlights to be equally human as he is, he even made a point of wondering if the Goblin leader was one too, and regretting having to kill him, but having no other choice.

This brings Kazuto Kirigaya's kill-count to five.

[deleted]

Who are the 5 so far?

Kuradeel, Kayaba, Raios, and the other 2 are unnamed laughing coffin members right?

BleedingUranium

The two LC members, Kuradeel, Ugachi (the goblin leader), and Raios.

I generally don't count Kayaba, as that was fully under Kayaba's own control and something he had always planned to do.

Vindicare605

Not so willing to put a kill counter on Kayaba yet.

That whole thing, from the way he glitched out, to the fact that Kayaba is still wandering the VR world, to the little smirk on his face when he gets stabbed makes me think that Kayaba if he DID die, planned it from the start.

I'm still holding on to hope that Kayaba consciousness is still alive somewhere out there, and that hopefully it gets explained somehow.

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InfiniteComboReviews

Kirito didn't kill him. It was explained better in the novels, but basically it was the AIs conflict with saving his own life and breaking the taboo index that cause him to "crash". Apparently, he still had "life" left when he died.

BleedingUranium

Yeah, given Humbert had basically the same wounds (though only one), and was just fine by tying a single rope around his arm, Raios likely would have been just fine too had Kirito actually been able to tie him up too.

Still, Kirito is definitely responsible, and so he now has a kill count of five. As a fun fact, if he were a fighter pilot, he'd now be an ace.

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MrShyShyGuy

Damn....I thought I was watching goblin slayer

GoldRedBlue

Especially ironic considering today's episode of GS was a totally calm slice of life snapshot.

C4llMeSteve

When the english stuff about viewer discretion appeared I stopped and wondered "Did I just launched Goblin Slayer by mistake?". Had to double-check and was still confused what the hell.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

[deleted]

i was shaking after the episode, it really shows how much emotion is put into an anime

Engbjerg

This show is so good at making me hate people. I loved how it is a theme that laws aren't necessarily good, and then focusing on personal ethics, combined with ai. Also, Alice copies... I knew they were trying to replicate her, but I never suspected that they would just, you know, replicate her.

DontMessWithGlitch

Well. That was dark

[deleted]

I loved this episode! A solid 10/10. Gave me the chills, and the animation was so amazing.
Personally I like that they went a bit dark for this episode, it really shows the heaviness of the topic they were portraying.

BleedingUranium

To be honest I feel it's one of the best ways to handle rape I've seen anywhere (not that I go out of my way to find that, mind you).

Usually it ends up being two extremes. On one hand, it's something like a procedural crime show where they just talk about it, and maybe it's vaguely explained and implied or talked about, and from a storytelling sense that only ever holds so much weight.

And then the flip side is where they go all sexualized with it, which is even worse, because now you're confusing your audience (on an innate, instinctual level) by trying to have something be horrible and sexy at the same time, and that leads to all the wrong places.

 

What they've managed to capture here is the terror, helplessness, and cruelty of the act, but with nearly no actual sexual elements at all, and it really comes across perfectly as exactly as terrible as it should be.

[deleted]

scary degree attraction attempt whole station important escape spoon familiar

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dtape467

Humbert is still alive, only Raios died

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daspaceasians

It was amazing and it was so fucking satisfying to see our favorite bros save their friends from those fucking rapists. Too bad one just lost his arm. Eugeo is really becoming my favorite character right now. I hope he and Tiese get together :D

BulliIshtar

Rule 10: Stay cool.

Me after this episode.

miriichuu18

After seeing all of that, who would be able to follow this? I guess someone who has super hight self control.

BRONsexualToLA

After that Stay Cool Episode we got this LOL...The animation for this episode is superb. Fairy Tail probably gets another powerpoint episode after A1 going all for this episode.

Best Waifu finally appear <3

TarkanV

That moment after Raios jump when you're expecting that tsundere girl from City Hunter to spawn with the 100-ton hammer and pound the shit out of this dude...but then you remember that warning at the beginning of the episode...

Excaliburnes

Mokkori...

[deleted]

This episode is just 10/10. The combact animations were stunning and I never expected that much blood to happen in a single episode. I loved the emotions of the characters.

Dammit Eugeo, you couldn't just stay in your room?

DarthCaedus12

"Your a Human, Eugeu, just like me" - This line kinda makes me think that Kirito has pretty much known for a while that Eugeu is a Artificial Fluctlight, but he now sees that the AFs can really feel human emotion and are humans in their own right, and I just feel like this line is really important and will impact later when Kirito most likely makes it out of underworld and discovers that Rath wish to use the AFs as weapons and that they dont see the AFs as real people. I also think that, since Eugeu has already broken the taboo index, he may become a candidate for becoming a A.L.I.C.E as he was able to break free essentially of his programming so to speak (in a similar way to how an android would become deviant if your played or seen Detroit:Become Human) which would make it alot more personal for Kirito

Smokemantra

but he now sees

It's not like Kirito is finding this out now, he's always thought Eugeo was a human too, he was saying that to reassure him because he said he was just like the goblins. To Kirito the artificial fluctlights have always been real people and they all have real souls.

Stonemario0

I am thankful my internet did not go down today,I was not expecting to actually FEEL something again.I honestly went so long without any emotions in my life for the past couple of years that I forgot how they were.Someone said that this episode wouldn't be good,well I just want to say I haven't had emotions this strong in YEARS and this episode REALLY effected my soul!

ImJustStar

Personally, I was a little worried going in but ended up LOVING the episode!

The show did a great job making me feel hatred towards those two nobles.

Also THAT SCENE was soo shocking! I do feel like it was a appropriate time use sexual assault to move Eugeos character into a turning point along with showing how corrupt the taboo and the nobles are.

CrimsonKingXIII

That was an intense episode, so much blood! Also the way Raios died was brutal, bleeding out and basically experiencing a catastrophic glitch in the Matrix at the exact same time. It will be interesting to see if this Alice is the same Alice from before or a copy.

IAmAFuckingGenius

SAO in general is great but today's episode launched it to be something greater. Holy smokes was this episode intense! Disclaimer aside it felt real. The connection to character with Eugeo is insane. Like your hoping hard he pulls through and then hoping to God that Kirito shows up.... Damn well played SAO.... Congrats on raising the bar!

[deleted]
behnow5

The voice appearing through the portal thing proclaims only one singular entity detected as having broken the taboo index. Does that mean that Kirito, in fact, didn't break it. If we assume no.. is it because Kirito sees Raios at that point as "worse scum than the goblins"?

Aceblast135

It's likely because Kirito isn't a Fluctlight. The taboo index has no control over him, while the purpose of Alicization is finding Fluctlights who can go against the Taboo Index.

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dWARUDO

WTF! I was not mentally prepared for this episode, and all this stuff was so unexpected to me. Firstly, I never thought I could hate another character more than Raios and Humbert. I was feeling so angry when Tiese and Ronie were screaming and Eugeo was having inner conflict of whether to break the rules. When Eugeo's eye exploded shit got real! This episode has me at a loss for words.

Please_Not__Again

I swear when Tiese started to desperately scream/cry "Senpai... Senpai" Jesus christ that VA was on point.

BrokenAshes

Will all the fights go like this? Where it's just charging up and then slow mo into Kirito being slightly weaker at first then overpowers the other?

Edit: I really liked the combat in Ordinal Scale.

gsimenas

No. Upcoming fights will be much grander in scale.

AKidSomewhere

Oh you’re in for a treat, trust me

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mymy6117

Literally the creepiest rape face I've ever seen: https://imgur.com/a/KqTGtoR

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