King Abdullah to abdicate Saudi Throne
751 comments · 92% upvoted · source · other discussions
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flawless_flaw
LoL4You
He is married to four women, has seven boys and fifteen girls.
So.. is the Saudi royal family ready for a game of thrones?
SinkHoleDeMayo
And his father, Ibn Saud, had 45 kids.
Talk about a clusterfuck.
Aqquila89
45 sons. And an unknown number of daughters.
anal_power_fucker
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Aqquila89
That's King Abdullah. I was talking about his father, Ibn Saud. I don't know what Ibn Saud did with his daughters.
uglychican0
Try an AMA request?
sed_base
"You guys, I appreciate the questions about my daughters but lets keep the focus on falling oil prices.."
Yazeed92
His brother, Saud, had more than 100 sons and daughters.
EDIT: Had. he is dead.
science_diction
I'm pretty sure there was a sheik at some point in history who had 1,000 children via concubines.
Of course, nobody comes close to Ghengis Khan in terms of descendants.
Nukleon
None of those kids are in line for the throne in any foreseeable future, The last 4 kings have all been brothers and there's still a few of King Ibn Saud's children left. When they run out of those they'll have to jump down a generation, and there's probably hundreds of grandchildren of Ibn Saud who'll then have to fight for the throne.
Nadiime
The Saudi dynasty is facing its biggest dynastic challenge in 50 years, and Game of Thrones-style cracks are showing in the imminent transition from King Abdullah’s rule.
Abdullah, 90, is currently battling pneumonia and temporarily needed help from a breathing tube last week.
The king assumed the throne in 2005 as the country's sixth king. His immediate successor, Crown Prince Salman, is 79 and also reportedly in poor health. Abdullah named his youngest brother, Muqrin, as the deputy heir last March.
The choice of Muqrin, a British-educated fighter pilot who has close ties to the U.S., is controversial partly because he is the son of a Yemeni concubine who was never formally married to his father, King Abdulaziz Al-Saud, who founded the Saudi state in 1932.
“He is not a real prince; his mother was a slave and there are other brothers who are more competent,” a former Saudi official told Liz Sly of the Washington Post last year. “Nobody believes Muqrin can become king.”
The newly-created title effectively allows Muqrin, 69, to bypass at least two other brothers, which goes against the unspoken rule that succession passes down according to age.
Over the last six decades, the succession mostly passed brother to brother in order of their age. But the last of the current line of brothers will die soon, passing power to the third generation of the family.
Source: Business Insider
smoothtrip
He is not a real prince; his mother was a slave and there are other brothers who are more competent
Well that is fucking comforting thing to hear in this day and age.
KASKAx
you must be new to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
Krehlmar
Having lived a year in saudi arabia, I can honestly say it's a horrid horrid place in so many ways most westerners can't fathom it.
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[deleted]
Well for one thing it's incredibly gay. There's a huge underground gay city inside the city. Due to constant separation of genders many Saudi dudes get it on with other dudes and it's not unusual, although illegal. This was covered extensively by an American magazine not too long ago, Google "gay Saudi arabia" or something along those lines and it should come up
lalala253
Google "gay Saudi arabia"
I'm not sure I want to do that..
eking85
Bing it!
fivestringsofbliss
PerInception
Use internet explorer. No one will ever see your search history.
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oldsecondhand
So what's considered gay then? Where is the line?
edit: Great, now my inbox is full of messages about gay sex.
bros_pm_me_ur_asspix
It's only gay if you talk about it. It's kind of seen to be building masculinity in each other ironically. That's seriously how it is seen, honest-to-Allah truth.
miraoister
is that the "man love thursday" thing?
I heard about it in Pakistan too.
Lid4Life
This has mostly come from a 5 eyes military setting where chai boys in middle eastern countries are known for having to put out on Thursday. It is not only on Thursdays, but each camp / village / whatever has their own day of the week that everyone taps into the chai boy
fivestringsofbliss
In Afghanistan it was always Thursday because it was right before Juma. Kind of like how some Christians wanna party all night Saturday, because they can be forgiven Sunday.
amrcnpsycho
Saudi is fucked, the people are fucked, the religion is fucked, the government is fucked. That place and Qatar are my least favorite non-warzone places in the mid east. At least Iranian people are usually cool it's just their government that's shit.
fivestringsofbliss
As long as you don't mind blue carpet and gold curtain rods.
amrcnpsycho
That's true, that's something only a persian could love
bros_pm_me_ur_asspix
there are a lot of privileged princesses here in Orlando who have decorated their bedrooms to look like that, thanks Aladdin
eaglessoar
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Yeah not sure why his mom being a slave matters it's a -1 diplomacy modifier at best and the charitable trait is easy enough to get with a summer fair which will compensate and then some.
Taurenevil
/r/paradoxplaza is leaking again. Call the levies to fix that hole!
bobbechk
The peasants have risen up in /r/worldnews, led by a disgruntled former lurker. The rebels have the nerve to demand independence!
cecilkorik
Large bands of upvoters and gilders are flocking to the banner of the faithless traitor /r/worldnews. Carrion for the vultures!
Josh123914
They're trying. But we've got 3012 troops and only 14 boats.
We're deciding if we should take 3 trips or just disband the additional troops.
Brokensharted
Well, the current king just change the succession laws. Such a thing tends to upset the vassals and family members.
Liquidmentality
I'd say they're getting close to a decadence revolt. The counter is almost at 90%.
lasershurt
If that's what the other Saudis say, and the king picked him specifically anyway, I'd actually think he's probably the better choice.
423848234
He is not a real prince; his mother was a slave and there are other brothers who are more competent
No kidding, to me that reads "he is the only competent one here, the rest of us are spoiled rotten non-fighter pilots whose only accomplishment in life has been being born to sickening wealth, please continue the tradition of giving us whatever we ask for whenever we ask for it"
ivsciguy
Literally everyone in Saudi Arabia says they are royalty. There is a college near me that has a lot of Saudi students study there and they are always talking about how they have 1/32 royal blood, and how that will guarantee them some cushy oil job when they go back.
swaginite
Here's assuming you live and study in the United States.
If you can travel from Saudi Arabia to the U.S. to study at a college, chances are you have quite a bit of money. Those plane tickets aren't cheap.
Chances are the students you're talking about have enough money to make the trip. So I wouldn't be entirely surprised if, in a society where the aristocracy has a lot of royalty, many of those who are able to travel have some royalty in their blood.
ivsciguy
Actually, not all of the students are wealthy. Their government actually pays for their secondary education, even in other countries, if they meet certain academic criteria. Some of the students live like poor students, others buy a muscle car with cash the second day they are here.
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Nukleon
That's Seniority succession for you.
aeisenst
Switch to agnatic-cognatic primogeniture!
Liquidmentality
Muslim dynasties can't switch from Agnatic Open. They must be using a mod.
PlayMp1
I prefer agnatic-cognatic ultimogeniture. Marry a genius and have genius lovers (Seduction focus or be a non-Christian and take concubines), then pop out kids until you get one you want. Then divorce/kill your wife (and set aside concubines) and marry someone older than 45 years old so you don't have any more kids. Educate the genius youngest child yourself, and see him become your new character at 17 years old with the best stats in the world. Rule for 60 years and expand your realm threefold.
I wonder if people know what we're talking about.
johnny_chan
/r/crusaderkings is leaking.
DeceptEmotiCon
Everytime i do that, my ruler dies prematurely and I'm stuck with a three year old king and a regent who i have to bribe to let me do anything and then makes me clean bird shit off the roof when I'm only 2 months away from 16 and i fall off and die and my slow or imbecile brother takes over.
simjanes2k
Seems like they have a never-ending string of geriatrics to run the country. I bet that works out well.
GatoNanashi
Even if it wasn't Islamic I'd wager it would still be pretty damn conservative.
Whaddaulookinat
New decree: Watching 60 Minutes now mandatory, and no skateboards on the sidewalk.
The_Arctic_Fox
I'm not a fan of monarchy, but a british-educated fighter pilot and son of a slave is pretty close to as good as possible.
[deleted]
“He is not a real prince; his mother was a slave and there are other brothers who are more competent,” a former Saudi official told Liz Sly of the Washington Post last year. “Nobody believes Muqrin can become king.”
I smell another Disney movie coming.
The-crazy-bus-driver
This is one of the biggest news stories of the year. If true, its effects will be felt in so many ways -- oil prices, world economy, middle east stability, human rights -- for such a long time.
Blue_Checkers
He is the son of a slave and king? He was a soldier, a cavalryman?
I find this interesting.
SirWinstonC
to be fair, Business Insider is the TMZ of international news (yes, they do post a lot of current events news)
csorfab
He's 90??? Holy shit he looks fifty-something. probably dyes his facial hair, but still, omfg
Ledmonkey96
yay succession crisis
Dutcherss
Oh no it's gavelkind
[deleted]
Looks like seniority, the heirs are in their 70s
wrc-wolf
Technically it's tanistry, but in practice the electors have all favored senior members of the family.
onyhow
Sounds more like royal version of Patrician elective then.
GottlobFrege
More like Tanistry since the heir will come from the house of Saud. In Patrician Elective the heir can come from any of the patrician families. Then again I doubt there are electors who vote. I guess we'll see.
dontthrowmeinabox
KASKAx
Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud is the heir apparent. But it's not clear if he'll be the actual next king.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_bin_Abdulaziz_Al_Saud
It seems that there is a hidden power struggle going on in the Al Saud family. The succession which was clearly defined was the seven Sudairi brothers, Crown Prince Salman is the ~last among them. After that there are brothers with little power and then the next generation.
King Abdullah has appointed two crown princes which is the first in Saudi Arabia history. The second after Prince Salman is Prince Muqrin. The appointment is very clever tactic by King Abdullah, Prince Muqrin is the last and youngest of the King Saud sons (Succession is within the brothers). After Prince Muqrin, ideally the succesion should go to the next generation and King Abdullah has already appointed his son to the post of National Guard head which is like Crown Prince in waiting.
Now everybody wants their son to be next. so if king Abdullah dies this order might be changed by Prince Salman to incorporate his son in the succession line.
You can also see this BBC article: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29792691
Also, it's interesting to note that ISIS has just tried to infiltrate Saudi Arabia a day ago. We are in for interesting times if there's a succession crisis, because ISIS is desperately trying to rally an uprising in the KSA due to the number of supporters they have amongst some of the non-Madhkali Salafis there (Madhkhali Salafis are anti-jihad).
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_Opario
It's odd to me hearing about a succession crisis of this nature and scope taking place in this day and age. Feels like a story straight out of Final Fantasy Tactics or something.
z3dster
Story is BS
Debka.com reported it first, then an Egyptian news stations carried the Debka report, Then Jerusalemonline.com carried the Egyptian report not realizing it was a repeat of a Debka story
If you don't know Debka here is the wiki on them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debkafile
altsarc
Ooof, Spidey sense going off the charts.
An Israeli news site citing an Egyptian TV show does not make for the most reliable source about Saudi monarchy shifts.
orban_kiraly
This might be bad news. By the standards of the saudi establishment, Abdullah was actually very progressive.
Although the Saudi regime was still barbaric under its rule, it was gradually becoming less so, efforts were made to end child marriage and punishment of rape victims. Abdullah had declared women will vote in the next elections.
If a conservative, traditionalist successor takes power, the past ten years of gradual progress will be undone and the saudi situation will become even more backwards than it is now.
I don't think the succession crisis everyone has in their minds will happen. The Sauds are aware that they make the country what it is, so much that it is right there in the name. The top on the line of succession are always carefully dividing the power between them. A Crown Prince has been chosen and a deputy Crown Prince as well.
Muqrin is the youngest living son of Ibn Saud at age 69 and deputy Crown Prince. Crown Prince Salman is 79 and has health problems, so I guess he will have a short reign adn then Muqrin will reign for another decade or so. Abdullah has reigned for almost 10 years compared to 23 of the previous king and his coronation was uneventful.
The question is, when Salman and Muqrin die, the next successor will be the first not to be a son of Ibn Saud (they are other sons alive, but probably they will all have died by then). But the grandsons already hold offices and are slowly gaining the offices of their fathers, thus even then a succession crisis will be then more likely, but chances are they will have figured the division of power by then.
The key point to understand is that essentially there is no formal succession line in Saudi Arabia, older sons of Ibn Saud have been skipped before, so as long as the division of power between sons or branches remains the same, little change will be seen.
Chucknastical 20 points · Jan 2015
But since there's no clear succession guidelines, doesn't that open the door for conflict if two or more ambitious descendants decide to contest who takes over? If everyone is willing to play ball for for the stability of the kingdom it'll work but greed has a nasty habit of overriding rationality.
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